Need help with the infamous tilt column rag joint please...

[kcmash]

So here is my potential solution. One of the recommended rag joint replacements for the 71 is the Lares 201. This has the lower coupling riveted in place and the hardware for the steering column flange on the non-tilt cars.

I plan to drill the rivets out for my steering column casting, and using the fasteners shown to attach it to the Lares 202. I could always cut the pins off to get a "closer to stock" look. What do you guys think. My other option is to see if Borgeson or Lares would rivet a new rubber disk in my original rag joint.

kcmash

 

[Frankenstang71]

So here is my potential solution. One of the recommended rag joint replacements for the 71 is the Lares 201. This has the lower coupling riveted in place and the hardware for the steering column flange on the non-tilt cars.

I plan to drill the rivets out for my steering column casting, and using the fasteners shown to attach it to the Lares 202. I could always cut the pins off to get a "closer to stock" look. What do you guys think. My other option is to see if Borgeson or Lares would rivet a new rubber disk in my original rag joint.

kcmash
View attachment 73486

i dont have enough info on the 202 to comment but keep in mind rock auto has these for about half the price your ad is showing here...

 

[Frankenstang71]

So here is my potential solution. One of the recommended rag joint replacements for the 71 is the Lares 201. This has the lower coupling riveted in place and the hardware for the steering column flange on the non-tilt cars.

I plan to drill the rivets out for my steering column casting, and using the fasteners shown to attach it to the Lares 202. I could always cut the pins off to get a "closer to stock" look. What do you guys think. My other option is to see if Borgeson or Lares would rivet a new rubber disk in my original rag joint.

kcmash
View attachment 73486

On thinking about this for a moment I think you would lose your safety interlock if you don't use both factory castings, Look at the inside middle and you should see where the castings lock together if your rubber donut fails. you would need to retain the long pins for safety if you did not use both your factory castings.

 

[kcmash]

I appreciate the input. I sent a request for information to Lars. I am going to see if they will just rivet a new rubber isolator into my original rag joint.

kcmash

 

[dieseldave]

Kentucky Mustang sells a Lares 219 which is for a Mustang tilt column, for $41.00. https://www.ebay.com/itm/195563405227

 

[Stanglover]

Rock Auto for $34.79 US.

 

[Hemikiller]

Kentucky Mustang sells a Lares 219 which is for a Mustang tilt column, for $41.00. https://www.ebay.com/itm/195563405227

Maybe @kcmash would volunteer to be a guinea pig to see if that coupler works for 71-73 cars. The C7ZZ-A part it replaces might be close enough to the D1ZZ-B unit to work.

 

[kcmash]

Maybe @kcmash would volunteer to be a guinea pig to see if that coupler works for 71-73 cars. The C7ZZ-A part it replaces might be close enough to the D1ZZ-B unit to work.

I have heard that the C7ZZ has a smaller steering box receiver than the D1ZZ. I have a call in to Lares to see if they offer rebuild there. If not, I now have potential access to a riveter, so I may buy the rebuild kit disk and just refurbish it myself.

kcmash

 

[rio1856]

I decided to be the guinea pig and I ordered the Lares 219 from Rock Auto for my tilt steering column. I can personally say that it fit perfectly on my Ford tilt steering column and on the Saginaw steering box shaft. Its perfect and now we have a source for the rag joint for the tilt column in our 71-73 Stangs. Awhile back I wanted to add a tilt colunm it to my 72 sled and I was able to get a decent one from Mike at Motorcity Mustang. I completely disassembled it and the parts that were worn or broken I was able to acquire from WCCC. I rebuilt and restored it but I was missing the unique rag joint and I would see them once in a while pop up on E-gay for prices that basically let me know that the seller wanted someone to pay so the could put their kid through college. So I have been waiting and then this thread popped up. I had no idea that Lares actually makes the correct rag joint. So thank you dieseldave for that. Also the rubber on the Lares 219 is fiber reinforced.

 

[Cleveland Crush]

Looks excellent rio

 

[kcmash]

I decided to be the guinea pig and I ordered the Lares 219 from Rock Auto for my tilt steering column. I can personally say that it fit perfectly on my Ford tilt steering column and on the Saginaw steering box shaft. Its perfect and now we have a source for the rag joint for the tilt column in our 71-73 Stangs. Awhile back I wanted to add a tilt colunm it to my 72 sled and I was able to get a decent one from Mike at Motorcity Mustang. I completely disassembled it and the parts that were worn or broken I was able to acquire from WCCC. I rebuilt and restored it but I was missing the unique rag joint and I would see them once in a while pop up on E-gay for prices that basically let me know that the seller wanted someone to pay so the could put their kid through college. So I have been waiting and then this thread popped up. I had no idea that Lares actually makes the correct rag joint. So thank you dieseldave for that. Also the rubber on the Lares 219 is fiber reinforced.View attachment 73909View attachment 73910View attachment 73911

Rio,

To settle the question, can you please confirm that the Power steering splines are large enough for the 71-73 Saginaw steering boxes? I also notice that my original is a 3/4 in ID on the Steering box side, but it has a flat area with no splines 180 degrees from the opening where the tightening bolt is.

Thanks,

kcmash

 

[kcmash]

I never thought this would be such an endless nightmare. I have confirmed the Lares tilt rag joint will not workon our 71 through 73 cars. I have searched for someone to rivet mine back together. Both Lares and Borgeson refuse to rivet mine together and refuse to sell me rivets.

I tried finding shoulder bolts, but they are either too short or have the wrong size.shoulder.

I have tried finding a source of rivets to no avail. Considering that Lares, Borgeson, GM, Ford, Jeep all use this type of rag joint, fasteners and rivets would be pretty common. Today was a beautiful day to get the car out, and I am out of service over this friggin rag joint.

Anyone know how to source rivets?

Kcmash

 

[Stanglover]

I never thought this would be such an endless nightmare. I have confirmed the Lares tilt rag joint will not workon our 71 through 73 cars. I have searched for someone to rivet mine back together. Both Lares and Borgeson refuse to rivet mine together and refuse to sell me rivets.

I tried finding shoulder bolts, but they are either too short or have the wrong size.shoulder.

I have tried finding a source of rivets to no avail. Considering that Lares, Borgeson, GM, Ford, Jeep all use this type of rag joint, fasteners and rivets would be pretty common. Today was a beautiful day to get the car out, and I am out of service over this friggin rag joint.

Anyone know how to source rivets?

Kcmash

I hate to tell you this, but they are likely to be proprietary to the industry. That happens a lot. Example; my son owns a BMW 328xi , 4 wheel drive. The front drive shaft from the transfer case lost the U joints. Simple you'd think, but noooo the joints are slightly bigger than standard. No-one has them, so you're forced to buy a very expensive BMW only replacement drive shaft. My son's car is now a two wheel drive.

 

[Bentworker]

Regarding the Lares 219. We have one member that states it works, and a couple that state it doesn’t. Can anyone show dimensions and or photos of what is/isn’t working with the 219?

The power steering box input shaft should be a 13/16” 36 spline (if you were to count the splines that were milled off for the flat).

I don’t know what the tilt steering column shaft is, but I think it is 3/4” single D.

There has to be a way around this.

 

[mrgmhale]

I am responding this this original post a little early to be able to speak with total conviction. but, being in the initial phases of preparing to install a 1973 Cougar tilt wheel column assembly into our 1973 Mach 1, I have learned a little about the differences between atilt and non-tilt wheel steering columns. Luckily I learned from reading and cautious preparation, With the power steering flavors of rag joints, there is a definite difference between the spline design in the rag joint metal hub, and steering gear input shaft spline design. The good news I learned about this before I tore the original non-tilt colums assembly out of the Mach 1.

I had a real problem finding the correct raq joint to use for our 73 Mach 1. I finally found one place that has the proper part # listed online. West Coast Classic Cougar, https://secure.cougarpartscatalog.com/. In my case the parts, used, were out of stock. And from what I am seeing unless you find a phantom NOS unit your only hope is to get the parts used. I put in my request for the two used parts I needed, and waited, and waited, and waited. To the credit of the fine folks at WCCC I did eventually get an email advising the parts were now available, and I jumped immediately. The parts arrived, in good condition from what I see. But, now I am waiting for the weather to break so I can refinish the steering column with warm temperatures. I am just hoping that now I have a shot at getting this project done with early in Car Season, 2023.

Below is a ScreenShot of the parts I ordered from WCCC. As of 13:30 EST today the parts are again out of stock.

Once I do get my tilt wheel swap project done I plan to report the project to this forum, and post a video on YouTube showing how I did it, ugly warts and errors included.

 

[Bentworker]

Contacted Lares, and they are unwilling to make a run of couplers using the 3/4” single D upper half from a 219 and a lower half 13/16” 36 spline from a 201. They already have the parts, just need to be assembled in a different combo. Unfortunately whoever they have running their support chat wasn’t interested.

 

[Stanglover]

So, they're missing an opportunity to make something that people actually want and need. Nice that they can turn down business.

 

[Sheriff41]

Check with http://www.allclassicmotors.com/1972MustangPartsNew.html They have an NOS one listed.

Steering rag joint 71/73 tilt 71/3 w/PS

N

295

 

[Bobby]

Alright Gents......I think I have what is needed. A coupler/rag joint that has the D or half moon fitting on one side and a 3/4 inch spline fitting on the other. With all the posts coming in, I'm really not sure who may need this. check out the pics. I was hoarding this for myself but I already have a franken joint in my 72 Mach 1 with tilt and I hate to see anymore frustration and suffering.....I went thru the same motions but was fortunate to have a favorable outcome. It took some doing but i got one to use and one to hoard back in 2019. There is a fella in Missoura who rebuilds and reconditions steering columns and he sold me the one I am hoarding now. I think he is in Joplin. Anyway, he rebuilt my steering column and it cost me plenty ($500) but it came back looking like new with a fresh satin black finish and a working tilt mechanism. He was referred to me by the guys at WCCC since their guy retired. Let me know what yall think......

If the spline end is the wrong size, it would be more likely to get the two halves that you need put together at a machine shop. They'll have to grind and drill out the existing rivets. My guys at the speed shop grounded and punched out the rivets just bolted my franken joint back together with the correct power steering gearbox end which was good enough for me. If you insist on a rivet connection, a machine shop is your best bet but dont count on them being able to get the correct rivets.

 

[kcmash]

Hello team,

I made another call to Lares the other day. The deep voiced customer service guy that says they won't do it let me talk to the parts manager there.

The parts manager at Lares said they are working on a 71-73 coupler, but it is still 6 months or more down the road. Not sure if that is good news, or if they were just getting me to leave them alone.

I am thinking of looking for a small lathe to manufacture he rivets myself. Until then, I will just use all the pinned fasteners to bolt mine together so I can get the thing on the road.

kcmash