POR 15 Rust Preventive

[Carolina_Mountain_Mustangs]

Wanted to start a thread about POR 15. I was reading a thread the other day here and someone was putting floors in their car and was considering putting POR on it. A member replied back not to that it was no good and did not work. I was at a car show swap meet yesterday and talked with a representative about the comment. I am not sure about the issue the member had. The representative said the only time there are issues is when you do not follow the instructions. She said that one of the biggest causes for failure is when the person applying does not prep the surface according to directions. She gave me a sheet titled "Directions for Persons Who Don't Read Directions", scanned copy attached.

She said that if you was the surface with lacquer thinner or any petroleum based product or alcohol or your everyday prep solvents like you would if painting a car that the POR material will not stick and will peel in sheets. If you do not wear gloves and touch the metal it will peel where your finger prints are.

So I bought a pint to treat the trunk of my vert that the po had put carpet in the trunk to soak up the water that leaks around the tail light seals, fixing that. It is surface rust so I will see how it goes. The representative said that the water based POR should not be sprayed unless you have an air mask because it reacts with moisture and if breathed when it hits the moisture in your lungs is hardens immediately and will kill you.

I guess bottom line is if you don't do as the instructions say it will not work but if you follow the instructions it does. I will see. I am also going to do a test piece that I can say put duct tape on and pull it off to see if it peels.

Please tell me your horror stories and how you prepped the surface. I hate doing things twice.

For reference the dealer I was talking with is Oakhill Enterprises, Debbie Blackwood, phone: 256-739-8191 & 256-347-0012 They are located in Cullman, AL. web page: alabamarustcoatings.com

David

IMG.pdf

 

[rutkak]

I swear by POR-15. I used in on the floor of my barn-find 70 Mustang. It's great stuff but make sure you get the two prep solutions, I think one is a cleaner and another one is rust converter. Must wear gloves, but that stuff is the real deal. Note that it takes awhile to dry, especially with humidity.

I also like POR's body putty. I've used it to fill in floorboard holes and other minor stuff. It dries to a substances harder than concrete and I'm not kidding.

POR-15 isn't cheap, but its quality and I swear by it.

Note it shouldn't be used in any area that will get direct sunlight and you have to get some other type of POR product if you want to paint it. So I'd use it for floorboards and undercarriage, maybe trunk.

 

[Don65Stang]

I like Rust Bullet better. I've used POR 15 but the RB is a better product in my opinion. The POR should do ok though.

 

[Carolina_Mountain_Mustangs]

I swear by POR-15. I used in on the floor of my barn-find 70 Mustang. It's great stuff but make sure you get the two prep solutions, I think one is a cleaner and another one is rust converter. Must wear gloves, but that stuff is the real deal. Note that it takes awhile to dry, especially with humidity.

I also like POR's body putty. I've used it to fill in floorboard holes and other minor stuff. It dries to a substances harder than concrete and I'm not kidding.

POR-15 isn't cheap, but its quality and I swear by it.

Note it shouldn't be used in any area that will get direct sunlight and you have to get some other type of POR product if you want to paint it. So I'd use it for floorboards and undercarriage, maybe trunk.

Thanks for the info. They did have a sample of the black that had been left in the sun and it turns gray milky looking over time but still does it's job on the rust.

I did ask about painting it and they said I could paint over it with the water base spatter paint like used in the trunk area. They said to sand before applying another paint.

I did go back today and got the phosphate prep to go on the cleaned metal to etch it. I have some like you would put on raw steel but again they suggest you use their material. The POR 15 was $33.00 for a pint and the phosphate was $18.00 for a quart.

Might get on the trunk this coming week will see.

David

 

[Qcode351mach]

Por 15 is hobbyist grade stuff that is very finicky requires as the rep told you to follow the procedure prep application to the t with no margin of mistake...It does work but you don't see many pro's top notch builders using it why is that ? What you do see the pros top notch builders using is epoxy or rust bullet. the same 2 products I use

 

[John J]

I have never used POR 15 so I can't comment on it. But I have used rust bullet and liked it a lot. Used it on a couple of areas where it had some minor rust and it took care of the problem.

John J

 

[turtle5353]

I used POR 15 on the frame of my BroncoII years ago and it held of to ALOT of punishment. Still looks good. I did the entire frame when I had the body off to install the body lift.

 

[Carolina_Mountain_Mustangs]

I used POR 15 on the frame of my BroncoII years ago and it held of to ALOT of punishment. Still looks good. I did the entire frame when I had the body off to install the body lift.

Did you media blast the frame or just wire brush?

Going to try to do inside the cowl today while I have the dash out and the hood off. Will coat with the POR 15 then add undercoating where I can get to. This isn't a show car just want to stop what rust I can since it is pretty much rust free now.

David

 

[turtle5353]

I just wired brushed the **** out of it then went to town with the por15. This truck was in the mud a lot and still looked great after 5 years.

 

[mustang7173]

Will Not touch POR15 since it did not work. Rust, you either media Blast it, coat it with OSPHO (http://www.ospho.com/index.htm) or just plainly cut it out and replace it.

mustang7173 ::thumb::

 

[Mister 4x4]

I believe what's missing is that the rust must be dealt with before using any 'coating' product. Otherwise, any kind of breach in the coating will allow air & moisture back in to continue the rusting process.

So, wire wheel, sanding, grinding, media blasting, replacing metal, etc., must be accomplished prior to using POR-15 or Rust Bullet to achieve maximum results. If not, you're just painting over rust... which will come back someday.

BTW - I did all of the above on mine before coating with Rust Bullet Black Shell. Rust Bullet is a solid product advised by Scott (Qcode351mach) - best advice ever. :bravo:

 

[mustang7173]

After reading several responses to this post, I had to go to the POR15 website to see the process. It is a 3 step process to using POR15. You have to start with the POR-15® Cleaner Degreaser and then follow up with the POR-15® Metal Prep. After all is said done, then apply the POR-15® Rust Preventive Coating. It looks like the main part to make this work really well is neutralizing the rust with the POR-15® Metal Prep. Once neutralized, the POR15 with prevent the moisture from getting to the metal.

+1 with Qcode351mach and Mister 4x4

One reason I like the Ospho product is that it is a balanced formula of Phosphoric acid, Sodium Dichromate, Surfactants, and Extenders. This stuff will turn the rust black plus you can tell is working due to the oder is emits.

As with any product, preparations is key!

mustang7173

 

[Go Time]

I too have been using rust bullet because of q codes recommendation, I like it. I use the metal blast that rust bullet makes and I think it is a great pre treat before I use the bullet. Its good stuff and Im glad Scott recommended it. I have no opinion on Por 15 never used it.

 

[Carolina_Mountain_Mustangs]

I am going to do somewhat of a test panel. I have a 1050 Ford panel truck that has surface rust on the entire vehicle. Going to do some test panels and just let it set and see what happens.

The car I am working on is pretty much rust free except for the surface rust in the trunk where he had put carpet that stayed wet. It will not be a show car but a driver so not trying to be perfect.

I know everyone has opinions and that is great. I am also going to see if there is any independent lab testing of all products. Every project is different you never know what has been on the surface over the 40 plus years. So many people have used ArmorAll on vehicles and nothing sticks after that and very difficult to clean off. So that being said it will be some time before I get that done. When you retire time goes into high gear and speeds up.

I hope others keep replying and maybe some pics. Some of the posts have had great results and some swear at the POR material. I guess they came early and when patents ran out others came out with their products.

It is probably like the epoxy floor coatings. The company I worked for was a stamping and weld assembly house for automotive and they tried everyone's epoxy floor coating and none would stick to the 40 year old concrete floors. It would come up in sheets no matter how good the supplier cleaned and prepped the floor.

David

 

[Qcode351mach]

All the testing you could ever want

http://www.rustbullet.com/testing/main-menu

 

[Carolina_Mountain_Mustangs]

All the testing you could ever want

http://www.rustbullet.com/testing/main-menu

But not independent and blind. Got to do it myself to know how it was done.

Like the oil testing not done to statistical requirements. Only one sample when statistics requires 30 samples to give a true reading but no company does that.

There is nothing really new out there just copies of some other product.

The companies that sold us hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of floor epoxy all had testing to show that theirs would not peel but it did and they applied it.

I just think that they are all just too good to be true unless I did it myself.


Ok after much reading on the Rust Bullet site I place an order so I can do side by side testing with the POR 15. They are both about the same price and the Rust Bullet site sort of speaks out of both sides of their mouth. They say you don't need to clean the rust in one place then when you start to read the directions they require the same cleaning as POR does. They even say to sand with 150 grit. I ordered their prep materials and the two can sample. The picture is the 50 Ford panel truck with a very even coat of rust that will be my test base. I will use the roof. The Rust Bullet says to apply two coats also like the POR. I suspect they are both the same thing just the POR patent ran out.

As an engineer for many years all of the companies I worked for did not apply for patents because they are pretty much useless. Too easy to get around. Electrical and medical are about the only ones that work. I have one patent that is I think 67 pages for the design and use of the product and it could easily be copied with just a few changes. Less than 1% of all things that receive a patent ever go into production.

Time will tell I will apply when I receive the Rust Bullet and the truck sets outside so all will be equal. After a few months I will try peel test and will also score the coating to see rust creep.

BTW if you are interested in the panel truck I also have a 70, CJ 429 and HD, C6 to go with it, would make a great street rod. I have too many projects now.

David

 

[Qcode351mach]

In all my years of restoring cars being in the body shop biz I have never used a product DIRECTLY over rust even if they say you can. It's not a recommenced common procedure if you want a quality repair. Its a hobbyist who believes the hype gets sold on painting over rust. Therefore a real world test would be over bare metal properly prepared by either media blasting or mechanical abrasion to remove all corrosion. Media blasting is the standard followed by 80 grit on the d.a. although you see guys all the time tearing into metal with a 36 grit grinding disc. You should also compare spi epoxy..The samples should be fully immersed left in a 5 gallon bucket.

 

[midlife]

I saw a similar test on VMF quite some years ago. The winner? Eastwood's Corrolless, or Rust Encapsulator. I've used it many times, either with a gun or a paint brush, and it has never let me down.

The key is to knock off any loose rust particles before painting.

Another winning project from the Concours-correct folks is Evapo-Rust. Large parts create a problem in that the part has to be completely immersed and it is best if the product is brought up to 95* or so. Despite what they say, it is very slow acting (not 15 minutes...more like 24-48 hours at room temperatures), but it does work extremely well.

 

[Carolina_Mountain_Mustangs]

In all my years of restoring cars being in the body shop biz I have never used a product DIRECTLY over rust even if they say you can. It's not a recommenced common procedure if you want a quality repair. Its a hobbyist who believes the hype gets sold on painting over rust. Therefore a real world test would be over bare metal properly prepared by either media blasting or mechanical abrasion to remove all corrosion. Media blasting is the standard followed by 80 grit on the d.a. although you see guys all the time tearing into metal with a 36 grit grinding disc. You should also compare spi epoxy..The samples should be fully immersed left in a 5 gallon bucket.

It would be great to do as you say but I am not going to tear the car apart to get to the areas of concern. This car has no rust on it except for the fact that he put carpet in the trunk and it was wet from the tail lights leaking. Also I wanted to coat inside the cowl and did a couple days ago. I am not going to cut the cowl apart to coat it and not going to try to blast it. I cleaned with hot soapy water as instructed by the POR rep, sanded what I could treated with their phosphate and brushed it on, actually poured some in so it would run down into the cracks. I am 67 I think the car will last longer than I do and not going to worry about it when I am gone, lol. This is not a show car but will be a driver it only has 48,000 on it so it should go for years. So with me having 12 cars I don't need to worry too much about being perfect. Not going to build a trailer queen or try to win awards just enjoy them.

As it is with all products everyone claims to have the best both of the big guys say the navy uses their product. I just want to see what is does on real rust without cleaning other than the wash no blasting no sanding. Rust is driven by moisture and oxygen if you keep those out it should stop nothing to keep it going if sealed.

From what I have seen coming from members several products seem to work they are probably formulated the same since patents have expired.

Keep the info coming would like to see some pictures of products that have been on for years if anyone has some.

David