Replacing battery mount area of fender skirt

[rvrtrash]

I had a '68 Mustang that had a big hole under the battery tray. I got a repop panel, but cut at the bend on top to save the original top strap that had the fender bolt holes, and VIN. I used a spot weld cutter along the sides and bottom to remove the old panel, drilled holes in the new piece for plug welds in the original locations and welded a solid bead at the top to reattach. It worked out well.

 

[dtmasoGT5]

https://7173mustangs.com/threads/sl...rfoose-current-subject-the-roof.32693/page-12

That link is extremely helpful, as it brought me to yet another goldmine of information for my project. You guys ROCK!

 

[California 72]

I've supported the car off the ground like most with jack stands. I'm using 3 pairs, one pair at the rear suspension sub-frame, one at the firewall area of the sub-frame and one pair under the center of the strut rod crossmember. Believe me when I say, I should know or remember the answer to this especially since it's gnawing at me inside for even asking. However, with performing a patch on the right front apron, only removing what's within the green outline, should I move the front pair to the engine crossmember?
As it goes, I'm not reinstalling the suspension and steering until after the patch so, something is telling me it's not a bad idea. I'm only hesitating since I've got the jack buried under the car with the handle off since I'm running out of workable room around the car. Then again, I'm a a couple moves shy of being able to start on the patch so, waiting for a slap upside the head response from the gang here isn't gonna slow me down.

Another question is; that square hole just above the blue line and inside that upside-down horseshoe stamp, what gets mounted there? The area was sort of elongated and so I know for certain something was there but not since I've owned the car.

 

[Sheriff41]

@California 72 - Since you'll still have structural support with the frame rail and the upper portion of your inner fender panel (not that the inner fender panel provides much), you should be fine with where you have your stands. If it makes you feel more comfortable you can move them.

The square hole should have a nut affixed to the tire wheel well side, though they are often stripped or missing. The nut is for the bolt holding the battery clamp bracket. The other end of the bracket attaches to the battery hold down bolt.

 

[California 72]

@California 72 - Since you'll still have structural support with the frame rail and the upper portion of your inner fender panel (not that the inner fender panel provides much), you should be fine with where you have your stands. If it makes you feel more comfortable you can move them.

The square hole should have a nut affixed to the tire wheel well side, though they are often stripped or missing. The nut is for the bolt holding the battery clamp bracket. The other end of the bracket attaches to the battery hold down bolt.

Tanks! Keeping them where they are is most convenient with moving around under the car. Although, that may change when I get ready to pull the pan, something that I'm kind of working myself into doing. Actually, every project of late seems to require a bit of mental gymnastics "psyching" myself into the effort. Doohhh!!!!
What you mentioned about the support, I just reminded myself of the time when I drove my '66 to school and then work afterwards. It was my Senior Year and I started on the restomod that September. By February, it was drivable and what I mean by drivable is...

Headlights and turn signals installed and functioning, no fenders, hood, bumpers, carpet, dash pad, instrument cluster was held in by wire and one seat, driver's side of course and, two passengers. Did I mention only one seat was installed? ? Granted it was only a couple times but who said you need fenders in a unibody? LOL

By the way, this was when you would get pinched for front/rear bumper height variance, exhaust sound and tire width. You old farts remember, the old "go fast" shocks, muffler and tires subscription. I drove thru 2 different police jurisdictions between Elmhurst and Villa Park Illinois, past a handful of "Officer Friendly's" and not one pulled me over. Either they were in shock that someone was doing it or? None of us could figure it out, still can't.

 

[California 72]

After assessing, reassessing, rereassessing and rerereassessing the first cut was definitely the deepest for the pucker factor. Now all I need to decide is welding options. Been looking at MIG and I also saw a reasonably priced spot welder online but the plug weld would eliminate the need for a second purchase and something I definitely need to make a priority to avoid.



The patch panel has been cut oversize so I can get the best fit and outline. So far, things are lining up with a little tug here and there, securing it before the final trim is the next step. If anyone was wondering why I chose to go up further on the panel, there was one spot that was probably a victim of the battery shifting and grounding out at some point in time. It created a weakening, and a hole was forming. It can be seen in some of the previous pics on this thread.


Plenty of trim to practice the butt joint weld.


The key goal was to save the part of the panel with the numbers below. I've mentioned several times it's not a Concourse level resto given there's a mod thrown in there, but I liken it to what makes a T-rod a T. Granted that involves only a firewall, this is just my version of protecting the original legacy of the car.



Now that I've taken an hour or so to get this written, it afforded me a chance to rererereassess even more so, I believe I'm going with the solid wire MIG. The flux core would be too much to clean up and the solid wire is more precise. Add in I'm gonna give that Ultimate Panel Prep Tool a shot, any thoughts on that are welcome too, it makes sense with some of the remaining body panel work needed. Just those stoopid reason rust areas that need attention.

 

[rvrtrash]

You did good to cut the new panel oversize. It's amazing how far the rust can travel and weaken the remaining panel, so that you end up blowing holes through it when you weld. I bought a " Lincoln 110V, gas shielded, wire feed Mig" for doing my sheet metal work. I've read online, and talked to people that know more than me, and the consensus is that the small spot welders don't apply enough pressure for really permanent repairs. Plug welds are better in places where you aren't running a bead.

 

[California 72]

I picked up the Lincoln Weld-Pak 90i today. I'm hoping this will serve its purpose given it's not the most powerful one available. Rated at Max 1/4" thick metals, I believe it will not be too difficult to take care of the couple patches needed between the front apron and rear trunk quarter well.

Just wanted to get some idea of thoughts surrounding wire size. I picked up a spool of .025 and thought that wouldn't be too difficult to pool or seam. Any experiences? Also wondering if anyone knows offhand what gauge most of these repop panels are? I'm thinking 18-20?

 

[Sheriff41]

I picked up the Lincoln Weld-Pak 90i today. I'm hoping this will serve its purpose given it's not the most powerful one available. Rated at Max 1/4" thick metals, I believe it will not be too difficult to take care of the couple patches needed between the front apron and rear trunk quarter well.

Just wanted to get some idea of thoughts surrounding wire size. I picked up a spool of .025 and thought that wouldn't be too difficult to pool or seam. Any experiences? Also wondering if anyone knows offhand what gauge most of these repop panels are? I'm thinking 18-20?

Finally, looking ahead to body bolt kits since many of the nuts and bolts removed were a little worse for wear than preferred so, with a production date hovering in August/September 1971, do I purchase the '71 kit or '72 kit. There is a difference by about 20 pieces and some descriptions of the type bolt/nut/connector.

That welder and wire will work nicely on the sheet metal you're replacing. If you haven't done any welding before or in a while, I recommend you spend some time practicing on the metal you trimmed off of your replacement panel or the better parts of the old, removed section. There are several techniques for welding panels that you can find on YouTube.

 

[California 72]

Never welded, fully realize soldering doesn't count so, that's the plan.

 

[Sheriff41]

Never welded, fully realize soldering doesn't count so, that's the plan.

You'll do fine. MIG is much easier to get a clean weld than FCAW. No grade, though, if you don't show us your work!

 

[California 72]

Everything set for work to begin but one thing, no shielding gas as of yet. Not that I haven't attempted to find it, I guess it's just a bit of a shock realizing I can't just buy the gas in a deposit secured bottle at the local ARC3, bring it home, perform the work and return the bottle when empty. For some reason I remember that being the process when friends did projects or at the gas stations I worked at as a kid. Heck, we do it with "beer gas" all the time.
This is my sticking point; $300.00 for a tank?! Evidently, you are now required to purchase a new tank, oh yea, empty too, albeit a single, initial purchase or multiple if you wish to have more on hand. The gas is another $170 to $250! Holy Scheibe! That's also only enough for 3, maybe 5 hrs. of work time. Not a clue if that's considered a decent amount of time for an amateur given, I'm envisioning 3 times that given the need to practice prior to actually welding.
So, the budget or the miserable failure at keeping this in the budget flew out the window and got thrown under the bus, with me in tow. Well(?), imhuepo, (that's in my humble undereducated personal opinion) owning a tank is ridiculous for the home shop but as I muddle thru life in paradox, own one I must.
I hope to have some pictures this weekend. I'll start with the practice one's as soon as I get gassy. Reaching for my wallet this much is definitely making me that way.

 

[Sheriff41]

Check around some. Check with Northern Tool if there is one in your area - they offer a military discount if you're a veteran. You have to buy a bottle to exchange but the 75 argon/25 CO2 should be less than $100.

 

[tpj71mach]

I agree, unfortunately the tanks are expensive, but it should be more in line with what Sheriff said for the gas.

 

[Zach]

You can always get a smaller tank. It’s not financially smarter if you are gonna be welding a lot but just for a project it is fine. I have a small tank, don’t remember the size, and I’ve filled it probably 5 times for the entire car, I’m laying large ugly welds cause it’s a rust bucket and dirty though, miles may vary.

Learn to use a grinder, it’ll hide all the mistakes and no one will know.

 

[Fabrice]

@rvrtrash Great to see you make the move. Now, after a few wire rolls and gas bottles, I keep wondering why I did not start welding much earlier! It's a must in this hobby! I won't give you tech welding advice but if there one you should listen to : redo whatever you did if it's not right and don't cut corners! Better to cut open the poor weld you just did and redo it than have your apron pop after you painted it!

 

[California 72]

Made the purchase yesterday. Bought the smallest bottle and gas and it appears the sales associate realized how old I looked and gave me the "on the 17th green price". I haven't putt out yet so...

Have a couple questions given the first test was so bad, I won't describe it and pictures are out of the question. Actually, nothing welded together, hence the questions.

First, I've thrown enough caution to the wind in my life I decided to take a more conservative approach. Since I like to "see", I did purchase a welding helmet. As I just mentioned about seeing, how do you see thru the thing. That's the first problem. When I tried to make the first tack, I couldn't see a bloody thing. Read the instructions on how to adjust the settings but that didn't make one bit of difference.

Second, I'm following the settings instructions but it doesn't seem "hot" enough. Just little BB's and a long strand of wire but those were able to be removed by hand. Had to describe it after all.

The welder was set at 3.5, just like the chart had shown. Speed was around 2-3. Gas is preset at factory so...
What setting(s) has/have worked for ya'll if using .025 copper coated steel wire?

Also, for testing purposes, I'm dealing with a stainless-steel worktable and lord knows I've been bit severely by our friend the amp a couple times, something I'd like to never experience again. What insulator is best since I do need to clamp the test pieces down? I tried a plastic trigger style clamp held in my vise but it didn't matter because I could see as explained above.

Finally, as far as sizing the actual patch, I purchased the Eastwood tool for butt welds as well as the gap style clamps. The tool is difficult but that may just be the lack of size with the test material. As far as securing the panel exactly where it needs to be, what are some of the methods ya'll have used?

 

[Hemikiller]

If you have an auto-darkening helmet, you should be able to see through it when there is no arc present. Mine is set at 9 or 10.

Since you're using .025" wire, you should be up at 5 or 6 according to the chart in the manual.

Make it Kustom has an excellent beginner's video on how to set up your welder and what to look and listen for.



Fitzee's Fabrication has a good sheet metal primer

 

[rio1856]

Welding is actually a lot of fun. I call my Miller mig welder my "Electric glue gun". There is a learning curve so practice, practice, practice!! YouTube is your friend. There are some good videos on there that answer a lot of welding questions that you might have. I have an auto darkening helmet but I mounted a powerful rechargeable LED lamp on the helmet so it would illuminate the area I would be working on before striking the arc. Practice on scrap steel that is the same thickness as the piece your working on. Just remember to play with the settings till you get the welds where they need to be. Sheet metal is not easy to weld when you first start out but with practice a you'll get the hang of it. Don't give up and keep at it. Oh and you're also going to get really, really good using an angle grinder, just be careful with it, the grinder will be the most dangerous tool in your arsenal.

 

[72mokk1]

Made the purchase yesterday. Bought the smallest bottle and gas and it appears the sales associate realized how old I looked and gave me the "on the 17th green price". I haven't putt out yet so...

Have a couple questions given the first test was so bad, I won't describe it and pictures are out of the question. Actually, nothing welded together, hence the questions.

First, I've thrown enough caution to the wind in my life I decided to take a more conservative approach. Since I like to "see", I did purchase a welding helmet. As I just mentioned about seeing, how do you see thru the thing. That's the first problem. When I tried to make the first tack, I couldn't see a bloody thing. Read the instructions on how to adjust the settings but that didn't make one bit of difference.

Second, I'm following the settings instructions but it doesn't seem "hot" enough. Just little BB's and a long strand of wire but those were able to be removed by hand. Had to describe it after all.

The welder was set at 3.5, just like the chart had shown. Speed was around 2-3. Gas is preset at factory so...
What setting(s) has/have worked for ya'll if using .025 copper coated steel wire?

Also, for testing purposes, I'm dealing with a stainless-steel worktable and lord knows I've been bit severely by our friend the amp a couple times, something I'd like to never experience again. What insulator is best since I do need to clamp the test pieces down? I tried a plastic trigger style clamp held in my vise but it didn't matter because I could see as explained above.

Finally, as far as sizing the actual patch, I purchased the Eastwood tool for butt welds as well as the gap style clamps. The tool is difficult but that may just be the lack of size with the test material. As far as securing the panel exactly where it needs to be, what are some of the methods ya'll have used?

Since you are using a welder that can use flux core wire you need to check the polarity of the electrode. From the brochure it looks like it is set up for DCEP, Electrode Positive, but they may have set it up for DCEN Electrode Negative which is for flux core wire. Don't worry, your machine is easy to change, number 5 on the brochure. Don't try welding anything together yet, get a clean piece of sheet metal and weld in the middle of it for 1 or 2 seconds at a time. Your nozzle should be pretty close to the material but not touching. What Hemikiller provided is a good starting point for your settings. Cut the end of the wire if it gets buggered up for a nice new clean connection. Youtube will help more than me trying to explain in text.

I have used magnets for securing a panel in place but if the panel is over lapping I use the back of my hand to hold it. A small spool of flux core is cheaper if you don't want to burn through your bottle of gas.