Worth restoring?

[detritusmaximus]

A couple vinyl roof topics:

https://7173mustangs.com/threads/vinyl-top-expanded.35121/#post-359961

https://7173mustangs.com/threads/has-anyone-seen-this-before.42144/#post-423672

 

[cjstaci]

How would you go about coming up with a realistic cost? I live in a very rural area without any shops anywhere near me. I think I can do most of the drivetrain work, but I've not done any body work.

You could start with pricing the mechanicals. Go to summit racing, Jegs, NPD or any of the mustang parts sites and start adding up everything.

 

[will e]

If you are referring to my car Mike, I couldn't disagree more. The ones that had the back half done aftermarket certainly did look screwy, but the front half being done looked great IMHO. I think it broke up the long roof in the perfect spot, right at where the quarter window ended. Mine looked really sharp, being brown vinyl,, over Gold Glow, with the Ginger interior, and I was glad it had it. Good enough looking to be in several car shows and win trophy's I'll add. Always got compliments on that car, it was a looker. I'd take that car back in a heartbeat, and did actually, about 5 years after my Dad sold it to friends of ours, who bugged us for years to sell it to them, but unfortunately, their kids crashed it, pulled the motor out for no reason, and otherwise ruined it. I ended up selling it to a guy to use the basic structure (rust free, never driven in winter), for a restoration on a rusty Mach 1

Maybe it was just the picture!

 

[Hemikiller]

I bought my 73 Sportsroof from Monaco Ford in Glastonbury CT with 6,000 miles on it, (a guy had traded in for a Pinto during the OPEC BS) factory equipped with the vinyl top option, in the winter of 73-74 and I, or later on, my Dad owned the car for over 15 years. It was painted once during that time, doors back because I got rear-ended, right before it was going into Frank Maratta's car show in the Hartford Civic Center. The night the Civic Center roof caved in, I was at Freddy Lucks house, snowed in because Freddy was putting the pinstripes back on the back half of the car. I personally took the car apart to be painted, and I can attest to the fact that the half top moldings were factory installed with the welded in nails that hold the white plastic clips that hold the moldings on. In other words, Monaco Ford did not add the top after the factory built it with some after market moldings, they were factory.
How many 73 Sportroofs were equipped with that option Dennis?

Marti shows 866 1972 sportsroofs and 8,050 1973 sportsroofs equipped with a vinyl top.

 

[rustang71]

Marti shows 866 1972 sportsroofs and 8,050 1973 sportsroofs equipped with a vinyl top.

How often did the dealerships install the vinyl tops? Are there any records of them for the 71s?

 

[rustang71]

You could start with pricing the mechanicals. Go to summit racing, Jegs, NPD or any of the mustang parts sites and start adding up everything.

What about body pieces? Are there any reputable businesses that have decent prices, but more importantly, good quality sheet metal. Also interior items?

 

[detritusmaximus]

How often did the dealerships install the vinyl tops? Are there any records of them for the 71s?

Probably no searchable records. It would be a dealer by dealer situation if they kept anything...if it was by the dealer, could have been by the owner.
My car, blue sportsroof in the first link, was sold new in North Hollywood. I haven't tried contacting the dealer yet, to see if there are any records showing if the dealer had the full vinyl top installed and who they had do it.
The car was originally yellow with white interior. Top looks like it was always black. Still can't decide if I want to redo or eliminate the vinyl roof.
1971 medium green with black top and interior would be pretty sharp.

The second link talks about an additional brace on the underside of the roof for support below the chrome roof strip on cars with the oem 3/4 vinyl roof.

Also, the factory could have put a vinyl roof on to cover minor damage after final inspection at the end of the assembly line. Cheaper than making a wholecar to fix minor roof dings.

 

[Hemikiller]

How often did the dealerships install the vinyl tops? Are there any records of them for the 71s?

The numbers I posted are strictly factory-installed tops. There's simply no way of knowing how many of the nearly 400k 71-73 Mustangs received an aftermarket vinyl top. Most likely they would be a different style than the factory 3/4 vinyl top. The dealership then, as now, tried to sell extras with the cars. AC units, floor mats and all sorts of aftermarket accessories could be had through the Ford accessory catalog, and many dealers would have connections to companies to do the custom vinyl tops, port holes and sun roof installations.

 

[mrgmhale]

Naw, just jump in the deep end and save another Mach !!

We did...





Not a single regret...

 

[Sheriff41]

I had a '73 Mach 1 that had a vinyl roof on the forward half. Not my style so I removed it when repainted the car.

 

[Mister 4x4]

Is it worth restoring? You have to ask yourself: How bad do you want it? How long can you wait to have it? How far are you willing to go? How much money are you willing to spend? How supportive is your family/friends? What are your plans for the car when it's finally 'done?'

Anything is worth it - just gotta decide 'how' worth it is. Most people would've looked at mine (avatar pic) and ran the other way. I didn't want to travel to get one, and I was determined to have it. 4 years and around $45K later, I have a '71 H-Code restomod that I'm very proud of, and will never sell. See below pic in my signature block.

 

[Roland]

Nice and great colored Mach1!
The rules are easy, if you have to restore only one of those 3 mayor sections you'll probably not loose any money:
- drive-train
- rust and painting
- interior, exterior
if you've to restore 2 of them, you'll probably loose money
if you've to restore all 3 of them, you sure will loose money

good luck, great car, had one with same color and white interior! miss it

 

[tpj71mach]

Trying to determine if this would be worth trying to restore these days or not. This Mach 1 has a huge hole where a sunroof used to be, and what appears to be evidence of a green 3/4 vinyl roof that wasn't on the factory ordered options (not sure if dealers installed them or not, but the dealer list their records in a fire in 1974). It has a fair amount of rust and several of the harder to find components missing (such as the ram air, the power window controls, interior). Let me know what you think. I obviously think it could be a great car, but I've not ever attempted to restore one, so I'm not sure what kind of time and money it tends to take. Thanks for your opinions.

IMO, it really depends on why you want to restore it, for an investment or a labor of love. I had a 73 Mach in high school and always wanted to have one again. I just never did until now for the reason that I felt it would be expensive to do and the value completed would not match the cost. I knew I could buy one already restored cheaper but I prefer to build my cars not buy them. I enjoy the satisfaction of saving a basket case and getting it back on the road for the first time in decades. I like to know how everything was done and that it was done as right as I can do it. I knew up front that it would be more expensive to restore a 71-73 Mustang than my other cars (Camaros & a Chevelle) because parts are more expensive and harder to find. There is much more reproduction available for my other cars by multiple manufacturers, that IMO keeps the prices fair and the quality up. I also knew that unlike the other cars whose completed values are much more than the restoration cost, this car would most likely be worth less completed than it cost to restore. I didn't care about that as I do not intend to sell it. I finally made the decision to bite the bullet and buy as solid as a base car as I could find with as many of the options I wanted as possible and get to work. I one thing that I really wanted that can't easily be added was the fold-down rear seat, that was my deal breaker.

Your car will probably be worth more than mine completed, judging by your Marti report (M-code, Ram Air, competition susp.) if you have the original engine and you restore it back to original color and options. My car will be heavily "up-optioned" (built M-code 437HP, 3.50 limited slip, full console, tilt column, rim-blow steering wheel, ram-air, hood locks, front and rear spoilers and more added) and color-changed (was green/green will be Wimbledon white/black interior) but will be exactly as I would have ordered (couldn't then I was five, LOL) it if I walked in to a dealership back in 1971. I can personally attest that at current day cost, it will easily cost over $35 G (mine will be over $40G factoring in upgrades) to do a full restoration on one of our cars, without most of the labor. I am in the middle of restoring a 71 Mach 1 (nothing special H code car, but it does have fold down seat) and I have approximately $28 G (including $6G purchase price with no engine) into it already. I have done all of the mechanical work myself, all of the sheet metal and body work myself, and will do the paint and interior work also, so most of the labor is not in the total $ spent. The paint job this car will have when completed alone would cost $20g, so If I couldn't do the labor myself It would be cost prohibitive for me to do this car.

TBH, I took some luxuries that added to the cost, as far as having the stripped down shell and body panels professionally media blasted to bare metal inside and out ($2800, totally worth it IMO) and sprayed with epoxy primer to seal it up. I also had my engine built by the speed shop that builds all of my engines (he's a Guru, builds great engines) Mid-life went through my harnesses, Rocket-man converted my tach and ammeter, and a friend who is a trans guy (gave me a smoking deal) rebuilt the FMX. Other than that, all of the labor has been "free".

You can look at my build thread to see all that has been done so far for that cost. I still need to purchase all of the final color coat paint supplies, interior, (deluxe door panels, seat covers and foam, carpet, headliner) Glass (windshield, possibly smoked glass kit for other five windows, if budget allows) decals, wheels & tires, and incidentals. My car needed some metal work (trunk floor, taillight panel, lower quarter panels sectioned) but was predominantly rust free (Las Vegas desert car) so that was a head start that some other members have not had with their restorations. The sheet metal is pricey and labor intensive and depending on condition of you car, that could add even more to your restoration that my car didn't need. I just thought I would throw my two cents worth in. You can look at my build thread and see what I have done. There may be things that I have done that you may not need or want to do to yours where there could be money saved. I can honestly say that if I had to make the decision over again I would still do it. I might have waited a litter longer and tried to find a better optioned car, but I would do it again, Good luck with your restoration if you decide to do it.

 

[cjstaci]

What about body pieces? Are there any reputable businesses that have decent prices, but more importantly, good quality sheet metal. Also interior items?

National Parts Depot (NPD), Mustangs Unlimited, Ohio Mustang, and many more.
TMI for seat upholstery.
When it comes to replacement parts like body or interior trim, original tooling reproductions are good. Try to restore as much of your original pieces as possible.

 

[tpj71mach]

National Parts Depot (NPD), Mustangs Unlimited, Ohio Mustang, and many more.
TMI for seat upholstery.
When it comes to replacement parts like body or interior trim, original tooling reproductions are good. Try to restore as much of your original pieces as possible.

I have had very good luck with NPD parts that I bought, they are my first go-to now. I have also bought some things from Kentucky Mustangs and Ohio Mustangs. I had a quality issues with the few parts that I bought from CJ Pony parts, they might be great, just the parts I bought from them weren't so I just don't get anything from them anymore.

The best source I have found for the rare or not reproduced parts are members on this forum. Motor-City has sold me quite a few "impossible to find" parts. I have bought many other parts from members here, they have all been very fair, no one trying to get rich, just trying to help each other out and get a fair price. Everyone I have dealt with from this forum has been very fair and helpful, just good car guys. I wish I had found this forum (thanks to Idaho Chris for the referral) before I bought the car or at least before I started the restoration and parts purchasing.

 

[tpj71mach]

How often did the dealerships install the vinyl tops? Are there any records of them for the 71s?

I can't speak for the early 70's but I worked at dealerships starting in the late 70s and they installed aftermarket vinyl tops a lot! New and used cars would get them. We had a shop who would pick up the cars (smart guy always had cute young ladies picking them up) and they would come back with vinyl tops, stripes, different wheel covers, they left looking like base cars and came back looking like a different car. My manager then said that the aftermarket could often add the vinyl tops cheaper than if it was ordered on the car from the manufacturer. This also allowed the cars to appeal to a wider market. You don't like vinyl tops we have the car for you. You would like a vinyl top, it will have one tomorrow, you can pick it up at five, what color would you like?

If your car was equipped with a factory half-vinyl top it will have a second roof support that is slightly smaller than the main support right at the point where the rear vinyl top molding would be. An aftermarket top would not have the extra support just the one main support. This second smaller support I assume, strengthened the roof when they pushed down on the molding to clip it on. I bought one of these second supports from Motor-City, and a couple extra main supports as well to support my roof. My roof had been buckled in and the sheet was stretched and oil-canny. I shrank the metal back and metal finished it and it was firm, but added the extra support for piece of mind. I tend to over-kill at times, but if I wanted to I could probably dance on that roof now, LOL. You can see vinyl top support is smaller than the other three main supports, it is the furthest one back in the first picture attached and the bottom one in the second picture.

 

[rustang71]

IMO, it really depends on why you want to restore it, for an investment or a labor of love. I had a 73 Mach in high school and always wanted to have one again. I just never did until now for the reason that I felt it would be expensive to do and the value completed would not match the cost. I knew I could buy one already restored cheaper but I prefer to build my cars not buy them. I enjoy the satisfaction of saving a basket case and getting it back on the road for the first time in decades. I like to know how everything was done and that it was done as right as I can do it. I knew up front that it would be more expensive to restore a 71-73 Mustang than my other cars (Camaros & a Chevelle) because parts are more expensive and harder to find. There is much more reproduction available for my other cars by multiple manufacturers, that IMO keeps the prices fair and the quality up. I also knew that unlike the other cars whose completed values are much more than the restoration cost, this car would most likely be worth less completed than it cost to restore. I didn't care about that as I do not intend to sell it. I finally made the decision to bite the bullet and buy as solid as a base car as I could find with as many of the options I wanted as possible and get to work. I one thing that I really wanted that can't easily be added was the fold-down rear seat, that was my deal breaker.

Your car will probably be worth more than mine completed judging by your Marti report (M-code, Ram Air, competition susp.) if you have the original engine and you restore it back to original color and options. My car will be heavily "up-optioned" (built M-code 437HP, 3.50 limited slip, full console, tilt column, rim-blow steering wheel, ram-air, hood locks, front and rear spoilers and more added) and color-changed (was green/green will be Wimbledon white/black interior) but will be exactly as I would have ordered it if I walked in to a dealership back in 1971. I can personally attest that at current day cost, it will easily cost over $35 G (mine will be over $40G factoring in upgrades) to do a full restoration on one of our cars, without most of the labor. I am in the middle of restoring a 71 Mach 1 (nothing special H code car, but it does have fold down seat) and I have approximately $28 G (including $6G purchase price with no engine) into it already. I have done all of the mechanical work myself, all of the sheet metal and body work myself, and will do the paint and interior work also, so most of the labor is not in the total $ spent. The paint job this car will have when completed alone would cost $20g, so If I couldn't do the labor myself It would be cost prohibitive for me to do this car.

TBH, I took some luxuries that added to the cost, as far as having the stripped down shell and body panels professionally media blasted to bare metal inside and out ($2800, totally worth it IMO) and sprayed with epoxy primer to seal it up. I also had my engine built by the speed shop that builds all of my engines (he's a Guru, builds great engines) Mid-life went through my harnesses, Rocket-man converted my tach and ammeter, and a friend who is a trans guy (gave me a smoking deal) rebuilt the FMX. Other than that, all of the labor has been "free".

You can look at my build thread to see all that has been done so far for that cost. I still need to purchase all of the final color coat paint supplies, interior,(deluxe door panels, seat covers and foam, carpet, headliner) Glass (windshield, possibly smoked glass kit for other five windows) decals, wheels & tires, and incidentals. My car needed some metal work (trunk floor, taillight panel, lower quarter panels sectioned) but was predominantly rust free (Las Vegas desert car) so that was a head start that some other members have not had with their restorations. The sheet metal is pricey and labor intensive and depending on condition of you car, that could add even more to your restoration that my car didn't need. I just thought I would throw my two cents worth in. You can look at my build thread and see what I have done. There may be things that I have done that you may not need or want to do to yours where there could be money saved. I can honestly say that if I had to make the decision over again I would still do it. I might have waited a litter longer and tried to find a better optioned car, but I would do it again, Good luck with your restoration if you decide to do it.

You've done yours basically how I would like to do mine. I'm fairly new to this forum, so I still need to figure out how to navigate and search it, but I think I'll have to find your build to help come up with a cost estimate and build info. Thanks a bunch. This group has been way better than I could have hoped for, and all of the responses have been very helpful!

 

[tpj71mach]

Thanks. Yes this forum has a lot of great guys who are very helpful. I go on other Forums, for my Rubicon and my Camaros and Chevelle, there are nice guys there too. None of those forums are as active though, and the members are not as friendly and helpful and knowledgeable as they are on this forum. Which has been a blessing considering my lack of Mustang knowledge starting this restoration.

If you look at Project build threads you can find my thread, it is titled '71 Mach 1 Resto Project. Unfortunately it is like 20 pages long already and I am not near done yet. I add a lot of pictures and detail, probably too much, LOL. I haven't posted anything too recently because, no recent progress. We were too busy over the holidays and the last week has been too cold. Even thought my garage in insulated and heated, I don't have any motivation to go out there when it is a high of 0 degrees outside, like it has been since last weekend here in Chicago.