BAD DAY!!! Catastrophic engine failure!! Updated pics of the carnage.

[turtle5353]

I was looking at the scat kit from summit racing. looked like MME uses scat stuff too.

I may be confused but the only kits on Summit are windsor based:huh:

They have a bunch of cleveland stroker kits. heres some for 408.

http://www.summitracing.com/search/Department/Engines-Components/Section/Engine-Kits-Rotating-Assemblies/Part-Type/Engine-Rotating-Kits/Make/FORD/Actual-Engine-CID/408/Engine-Family/Ford-Cleveland/?Ns=Rank%7cAsc

 

[Tnfastbk]

I was looking at the scat kit from summit racing. looked like MME uses scat stuff too.

I may be confused but the only kits on Summit are windsor based:huh:

They have a bunch of cleveland stroker kits. heres some for 408.

http://www.summitracing.com/search/Department/Engines-Components/Section/Engine-Kits-Rotating-Assemblies/Part-Type/Engine-Rotating-Kits/Make/FORD/Actual-Engine-CID/408/Engine-Family/Ford-Cleveland/?Ns=Rank%7cAsc

LOL told you I was confused

 

[kcmash]

Well I drove the mach1 to work yesterday and noticed it had a miss. I jumped on the throttle a few times to check it out and once in a while it would take off other times it would sputter and miss. Well I just figured i got bad fuel again or something. Nothing major. I keep a very good eye on all my guages and everything was reading as it should. On the way home more of the same. I turned onto my road and ran 1st gear up to about 4800-5000 rpm shifted to 2nd and BANG!!! CLANK!! and every other bad sound you dont want to hear from your motor that has less than 7,000 miles on it!!! i pulled over to the side of the rode and had it towed home. I got to look at it this morning a little and did not like what i had found. Drained the oil, and found about a gallon off anti-freeze in it. Also some nice size chunks off metal coming out drain plug hole and others that were too big to come out. Pulled the plugs and found 2 smashed #1 & #6. Pulled the carb and inside the intake found what looks like pieces of valves and pistons. This sucks bad. I wont get a chance to pull the motor for another week or two to see what all the damage is but it is not good!! Hoping that the block is still good but doubt it with that much metal all through the motor. The motor never heated up never lost oil pressure or anything. had a little miss that day but that was it. Im guessing either a water jacket broke into the motor, head gasket went, or head cracked and dumped water into a cylinder and hydro-locked and busted rod/ piston/ crank.....whatever else!! This motor is only about 2 years old from a COMPLETE top to bottom rebuild. If the block or heads are junk i dont know if i should build another cleveland or something else??? I have all the goodies for a cleveland..... intake, roller rockers, headers, billet dizzy.....etc etc. If i do build another cleveland I was thinking about going with the 408 stroker kit and / or some twisted wedge aluminum heads. depending on the money. If i can do both the heads and stroker i will but if not i will go either stroker or heads.what would run better? stock crank 351 with aluminum heads or stroked 408 with stock heads?? Again this all depends on what i can salvage from my motor. Sorry for the long post guys!!! Just venting and highly upset!!! I need a beer:huh:

Heres a couple pics of the pieces and plugs.

Why are there chunks of metal in the intake? Any chance of sabotage?

 

[turtle5353]

The little pieces are from the cylinder wall and piston and valve grenading. the big pieces under the valley pan were just set there as i was digging pieces out of the cave where my piston used to reside.

 

[mach71351c]

I don't know if you would want to waist your time with this. I have a 30 over block that you can have for free just pay for shipping. Know the bad news it would need a sleeve. The guy I got from stored it out side behind his shop and it got rained on. I picked up the motor for the 4v heads. Or I have a 72 2v long block that ran when I pulled it out off a 72 Grande. It was over heated and started to ticking before I bought the car for parts. I would say that the engine was never pulled out of the car, so I believe it to be stock bore. I would be willing to tear down the long block and sell it as a short block or bear block. I just don't know if the shipping coast would be worth it.

Mike

 

[clevelandcoupe]

Sorry for your recent loss !!! We all have been down that road.

I have a 2 bolt cleveland short block that was just freshened up. It is bored .020 with Probe pistons, good cam,timing chain, etc. I also have closed chambered 4V heads with stainless steel valves, screw in stud conversions, if you are interested. All work was completed by Danbury Competion Engines in CT. You could clean-up paint and install very quickly. I am in north west jersey, not too far for pick-up. PM me and we can discuss.

Thanks, Jay

 

[cazsper]

I have always been partial to strokers. The added benefit of torque across the boas for about the same price (considering you were going to use forged internals anyway). Then again, I grew up with Windsors and the 5.0 mustangs. But what I have heard on this forum time and time again are that the 4v Cleveland heads are superior to aftearket Wimdsor heads. Even if they were as good as a set of AFR (Air Flow Research) heads, I would go the stroker route. Build yourself a nice stroker with a set of 4v heads. Down the road, if funds and time are available you can then add a set of aftermarket heads. Just my opinion.

 

[turtle5353]

Thanks for the offers and replies fellas. But i did get some pretty encouraging news from the machine shop today. I took my heads over and he is going to magnaflux them and pressure test them for me. He said they look pretty good for what happenned. The broken valve head will need 2 new valve seats but thats about it from what he could see. If the magnaflux and pressure test pass im good for heads. Im glad too, because i had a lot of porting work done to those heads. I showed him pics of the block and cylinder and he said if the deck isnt stress cracked he could resleeve that one cylinder and be good to go. Said he's fixed alot worse. Which is great for me cause that will save me from finding and machining another block. Looks like we will buy the 408 scat stroker kit because my pistons rod, and crack are junk. Use my 2v heads on it till next winter and i can save up the money for some aluminum heads. but we wont know everything till i get short block out and over to him in the next few weeks. But thanks everyone for the replies!!

 

[c9zx]

I hope the good news keeps coming. Please consider putting some single groove 1 piece valves in. I'd hate to see a Threepeat. I can recommend the Scat products. Everything was checked very closely, no addition machining was required, balanced without drama. Also consider the Mahle Pistons. They are available at +.030 with the proper pin location for 4.00 stroke and 6.000 inch rods. They are great pistons and near artwork. If it trashed the crank I'd spend the few extra dollars to have the block magna fluxed, especially around the main webs and lifter galley. You will need to choose pistons and cam for either the short term 2V heads or long term 4V. With CC heads the SCR is just under 10:1. With OC heads the SCR is about 9.2:1. A cam selected for the CC heads would work OK with the OC heads and a piston selected for CC heads, just not optimal. If you plan to switch to CC heads I'd choose pistons and cam for the CC heads and live with less than optimal until you switch to CC heads. If you put the better valves in the 2V heads, and the are effectively ported it would be a big plus when it came time to sell them to help finance the CC switch. Just my opinions. I hope all progresses well. Chuck

 

[turtle5353]

Thanks chuck. I am gonna get all new valves and the rotating assembly for the 408 kit from scat. For now we are gonna run my cam set up that i have till i get the other heads next winter. The machine shop is gonna go all over the block before we decide to sleeve it or scrap it. The heads worked well with the porting i had done to them, i could really tell a big difference after the porting last time .

 

[c9zx]

You will LOVE the 408C. One of the best street engines I've ever built. It will be very difficult to stop smiling when you get out of the car. It may cause the wife or girl friend to ask you why you have that silly grin on your face.

Chuck

 

[turtle5353]

You will LOVE the 408C. One of the best street engines I've ever built. It will be very difficult to stop smiling when you get out of the car. It may cause the wife or girl friend to ask you why you have that silly grin on your face.

Chuck

LOL my wife already says that!!!

 

[TheJ]

Sorry to hear about your motor. I don't really have an opinion about what to do but just to throw it out there how about a couple of turbos?

 

[turtle5353]

Sorry to hear about your motor. I don't really have an opinion about what to do but just to throw it out there how about a couple of turbos?

I would love to but i will be broke enough after building this 408 stroker LOL!!!

 

[turtle5353]

Well guys I did get some good news today from the machine shop. They checked my heads and they are going to be fine. Also I picked up a 1972 cleveland block about 30 minutes from my house this morning. Its in nice shape and was in a guys garage for the past 20 years in a garbage bag under the bench. Had some surface rust but nothing major and its standard bore!! He sold it to me for 75 bucks!! And a box of odds and ends parts that went with it. I found what looks like a z bar for a clutch set up in there too, i will post some pics tommorow. but if anyone needs it they are more than welcome to it if they can use it. I dropped off the block at the machine shop and he said it would be 4-5 weeks before he can get to it, but thats ok because i have all winter. Was gonna try to reuse some parts from my old motor but decided we are gonna go all out with everything new for the 408 stroker!! here is the kit i will be installing.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SCA-1-94270BE/

Well thats the news on the new motor so far. I will keep you guys posted as i go.

 

[TheJ]

Very cool that you got a standard bore block for 75 bucks. I can't wait to see this thing. What compression ratio are you shooting for?

 

[turtle5353]

Very cool that you got a standard bore block for 75 bucks. I can't wait to see this thing. What compression ratio are you shooting for?

Not really shooting for any certain compression ratio. My 2v heads will help keep it down some and be pump gas friendly.

 

[armyfox]

Great find turtle! When I get back from deployment I plan to find a 351c to turn into a 408 like you are doing. I dont want to hurt the original engine in my car. Hopefully, little things like that motor find keep happening to you to give you a little bit of a break from what the car gods did to your last engine. Great progress! Keep it up

 

[73vertproject]

Great find turtle! When I get back from deployment I plan to find a 351c to turn into a 408 like you are doing. I dont want to hurt the original engine in my car. Hopefully, little things like that motor find keep happening to you to give you a little bit of a break from what the car gods did to your last engine. Great progress! Keep it up

+1. Well said.

 

[marks73]

Personally I think your attitude throughout this entire episode has been fantanstic! Remember,"We can rebuild it. Make it stronger, faster...." If you got $6,000,000 we can make it sit up and bark like a dog!