Valve covers and flame thrower

[batwrangler]

Does the valve covers on the CJ Pony site that says (289,302,351w ) would these valve covers fit the Cleveland engine many say 351w on their site very little say Cleveland,,,,another thing the 45000 flame thrower coil does it send 12v all the time to the distributor???

 

[Hemikiller]

Windsor valve covers will not fit a Cleveland.

The coil doesn't send 12V to anything, it receives ~7V volts from the ignition power feed.

 

[Stanglover]

To be clear, the 45000V coil delivers that to the plugs. A Pertronix Flamethrower coil needs to receive a full 12V. You will need to either cut and bypass the pink resistor wire or buy the Pertronix relay for an easy install to provide the 12V. Do NOT use that coil with points. It is for the Pertronix Ignitor I or II module only.

Th Cleveland valve covers have 8 bolts, the Windsor has 6.

Geoff.

 

[batwrangler]

To be clear, the 45000V coil delivers that to the plugs. A Pertronix Flamethrower coil needs to receive a full 12V. You will need to either cut and bypass the pink resistor wire or buy the Pertronix relay for an easy install to provide the 12V. Do NOT use that coil with points. It is for the Pertronix Ignitor I or II module only.

Th Cleveland valve covers have 8 bolts, the Windsor has 6.

Geoff.

Thanks Geoff ill hold off and buy dis. that comes with igniter great tx

 

[batwrangler]

Windsor valve covers will not fit a Cleveland.

The coil doesn't send 12V to anything, it receives ~7V volts from the ignition power feed.

Thanks bro I was just worried about  12v  going to the points Thanks for the help iv been trucking for 30 years and have been out of the car thing and into truck engines so now retired its time to get back into the car thing...

 

[Stanglover]

To be clear, the 45000V coil delivers that to the plugs. A Pertronix Flamethrower coil needs to receive a full 12V. You will need to either cut and bypass the pink resistor wire or buy the Pertronix relay for an easy install to provide the 12V. Do NOT use that coil with points. It is for the Pertronix Ignitor I or II module only.

Th Cleveland valve covers have 8 bolts, the Windsor has 6.

Geoff.

Thanks Geoff ill hold off and buy dis. that comes with igniter great tx

 I'd recommend the Pertronix Ignitor II and Flamethrower II matching coil (or match the Ignitor you buy to the coil you have if that makes sense) There are coils for the I, II and III (the I and II may be the same, not sure)

Another way to tell the PI and PII, the PI is black and the PII is red. Very easy to wire in, but you do need the full 12 V. I don't have info about the relay.

Another great option is to go with a Dura Spark distributor set up. I believe it's Performance Distributors that sell them set up for YOUR engine application. You can buy stock elsewhere.

 

[Don C]

Your concern was valid about supplying 12 volts to the coil and points. The reason for reducing the voltage to the coil is to reduce pitting on the points, they don't last long with 12 volts to the coil.

If your distributor is in good operating condition you can just replace your points with a Pertronix module. You can also get higher performance coils that work on the reduced voltage. Just look for one that is for an external resistor.

A DuraSpark ignition is also popular for our cars. Cleveland engines use the same distributors as 429/460 engines, so the distributors are readily available for Cleveland's.

 

[batwrangler]

Got it,,, ill go with pertronix 1 or 2 I heard not to use 3 with 45000 flame thrower new regulator Motorcraft,,

 

[batwrangler]

Got it ill go with pertronix 1 or 2 I heard not to use 3 with 45000 flame thrower new regulator Motorcraft,,

 

[Fabrice]

p1 as a static dwell angle, p2 is variable.

I run p1 since late 80's. Love these simple durable parts.

 

[Stanglover]

Got it ill go with pertronix  1 or 2  I heard not to use 3   with 45000 flame thrower  new regulator Motorcraft,,

The P III is mechanically garbage unless  they have finally redesigned the plastic bearing between to two plates on the FORD model. Electronically good, but the one I had failed when the plastic bearing thing wore so much that the top plate actually moved enough for the air gap of .030" closed up completely. That was within a year. Pertronix replaced it with a P II and coil, but did not admit fault. No problems since and I love it!

Do your research before you buy, but it is very important to match the two.

You may also need to recurve your timing and that's when it get really interesting!!! There has been much written on that and you can search, or ask for help.

Geoff.

 

[batwrangler]

yep thanks ill do that in about two weeks maybe it will warm up a little in the shop even though I got heat just too expensive to run plus I got to order this it wll be 45000 F.thower coil with Per 1 igniter in original Dis.,,

 

[Stanglover]

yep thanks ill do that in about two weeks maybe it will warm up a little in the shop even though I got heat just  too expensive to run plus I got to order this it wll be 45000 F.thower coil with Per 1 igniter in original Dis.,,

 Sounds good.

 Can you refresh us on the engine, year and what timing it is running now. Do you get any spark rattle?

Lots of help on timing available here, just ask.

Geoff.

 

[batwrangler]

Its a 73  351c ..Whats spark rattle?? iv only started this motor three times and it ran rough im going with a new Billet Distributor and igniter 2 and 45000 F Thrower coil,,

 

[Stanglover]

Its a 73  351c ..Whats spark rattle?? iv only started this motor three times and it ran rough im going with a new Billet Distributor and igniter 2 and 45000 F Thrower coil,,

Ah okay, that should be a good set-up. I'd also suggest a good set of 8mm wire wound spark leads, do not use solid core wires!! (per Pertronix instructions)

Spark rattle is another name for pinging, spark knock and a few other names for nasty things that happen when the spark occurs too early before TDC under hard acceleration.

A 351C likes about 14 to16 degrees of initial mechanical timing plus 20 degrees on the crank for a total of 34 to 36 degrees mechanical timing, vacuum plugged and disconnected. The vacuum advance should be about 4 to 6 degrees on top of that. Gets complicated I know and there's a lot more guys on the forum who can explain it way better than I ever could.

When you drop your distributor in, make sure the #1 piston is a TDC on the compression/firing stroke. Too easy to get it 180 deg. off. The rotor will be pointing at the #1 cylinder.

Geoff.

 

[batwrangler]

wright Geoff,, one thing scars me should I by pass the resister changing the volts from 6 to 12 ,,,once I ran a hot wire from batt to coil and the wire went on fire,,should I bypass it or leave it stock???

 

[Stanglover]

right Geoff,, one thing scars me should I by pass the resister changing the volts from 6 to 12  ,,,once I ran a hot wire from batt to coil and the wire went on fire,,should I bypass it or leave it stock???

Pertronix make a relay just for that reason and purpose. I don't have the part number, nor did I use one when I first put a P III on mine (now have the P II). I did it the hard way and cut the pink wire at the plug connector under the dash, then soldered in a #10 (red) wire directly to the coil. Apparently I did not need to do that either. I'm NOT totally sure on this, so check, but the pink wire can be bypassed at the connection under the hood. I stress, I'm not sure on that, so maybe Midlife can comment. You do NEED a full 12V for the P II to work, so the relay is your best bet. I wish I'd know about the relay when I did mine. Not only would it have save a nasty job working under the dash, but I would have kept that resistor wire should I ever need it again.

Also forgot to mention on timing, you need it to be all in by 3000rpm. i.e. fully advanced. A good timing light that is digital, adjustable and has a tach on it is a great tool to have. There's a lot to learn to get the timing, fuel mixture etc. etc., but once you start to understand it, it gets to be fun. I'm not sure what your end goal is, but I'd say, just get it running smoothly first. You may have other stuff going on that also needs to be addressed, like a clapped out carb, vacuum lines going to wrong places or just leaking. It may come down to a complete top end refresh. And the snow-ball effect gets bigger!!!

Geoff.

EDIT: The Pertronix 2001 Ignition power relay is available from CJP for $30.46. Others will have it as well I'm sure. Also, there are YouTube videos on installing modules. search for the one that matches yours, but as you are going with a new Pertronix dizzy, it should be easy.

 

[batwrangler]

Ok  I Will put a new Distributor with Pert ll igniter with Pert relay switch (Buy passing the Pink wire)  40,000 v F.Thrower  .           .TWO Part QUestion is sending 12v to coil will the wire to the coil burn up and were and what does the relay switch play

 

[Hemikiller]

 I got heat just  too expensive to run

Just want to slow this train down for a second considering the quoted statement. 

Before you go drop @ $200 on ignition parts, do a thorough diagnosis of the engine to verify that it actually is the ignition that's causing your problem. "Rough running" can be caused by a wide variety of issues, from bad gas, junk in the carb to vacuum leaks, broken valve springs, burned valves, worn out engine or simply misadjusted or dirty points. 

A simple $15 vacuum gauge can verify the condition of the engine and aid in diagnosing your issues as well as help with tuning and adjustments. 

Take a few minutes to clean and adjust the points, ensure the choke is operating properly and that you don't have any vacuum leaks. If the gas in the tank smells bad, feed the fuel pump directly from a small can of fresh fuel. Personally, I'd disconnect all the vacuum lines from the trees on the intake, cap them and see how it runs - just make sure you label where they go. Spray around the intake and carb base gaskets with carburetor cleaner to see if the RPMs change - this would indicate a vacuum leak through a gasket.

If you don't have a factory repair manual set, at least invest in the Haynes 64-73 Mustang manual. I bought one at the same time as my first Mustang in 1988 and it got me through to making the car a reliable daily driver. 30 years and dozens of cars later, I still refer to it from time to time.

https://www.amazon.com/Haynes-Publications-36048-Repair-Manual/dp/0856963577