Zero lash

[jpaz]

I agree with that. Have never seen anything like this before. I just figured I would give it a try.

I have the intake pretty much ready to pull off and hopefully I’ll have time to remove it this weekend.

At least you tried before replacing. Basically, you are saying that after pressurizing they bled just with the weight of the lifter with no pressure from the spring. You can weld them together and make a 16 lifter tall tower decorative lamp out of them.

Ya that’s what is happening. The #1 intake was solid, so I set the lash. And I know that it’s not at the heal of the cam, but close enough to try to set. Now I bet it has bleed down over night. The exhaust on #1 only stayed pumped up for an hour at the most.

The lamp idea sounds like what the lifters are only good for now, lol.

 

[jpaz]

So I just went out and checked the lifter situation. I was wrong, the intake on cylinder #1 did stay up, but the exhaust is even worse than last night. I think there’s a couple that are good, but I think most are faulty. Time to take the intake off.

 

[Fabrice]

If of any help. I think I've red on your thread that you are using Crower.

on the pict see the diff with Crower and Summit lifters. The Crowers have 2 valves.

As its very easy to open them, I'd inspect the valves of the faulty ones to make sure they're not stuck.

If they'd stayed too long on the shelves poorly lubricated or put together wrongly or with too thick grease or even having a tiny bit of corrosion, you could fix that in few instants.

They only need be shinny and receive a film of oil to operate as they should.

In my case it was the reverse, one of the new Summit was not put together correctly (retainer hat with a tiny angle). I could feel that after I've let them soak in oil and test with my thumb. In place, the pushrod felt much harder and would not come back to rest position right away.

I've open the old Crower I would not reuse first to make sure it was an easy procedure and potentially be able to salvage something from the old to new (impossible as they are totally different inside). To inspect/fix is a piece of cake.

Showed me once more, that "new" means very little.

 

[tony-muscle]

If of any help. I think I've red on your thread that you are using Crower.

on the pict see the diff with Crower and Summit lifters. The Crowers have 2 valves.

As its very easy to open them, I'd inspect the valves of the faulty ones to make sure they're not stuck.

If they'd stayed too long on the shelves poorly lubricated or put together wrongly or with too thick grease or even having a tiny bit of corrosion, you could fix that in few instants.

They only need be shinny and receive a film of oil to operate as they should.

In my case it was the reverse, one of the new Summit was not put together correctly (retainer hat with a tiny angle). I could feel that after I've let them soak in oil and test with my thumb. In place, the pushrod felt much harder and would not come back to rest position right away.

I've open the old Crower I would not reuse first to make sure it was an easy procedure and potentially be able to salvage something from the old to new (impossible as they are totally different inside).  To inspect/fix is a piece of cake.

Showed me once more, that "new" means very little.

So one more lesson is that we shouldn't trust new parts and we should double check them all.

 

[jpaz]

If of any help. I think I've red on your thread that you are using Crower.

on the pict see the diff with Crower and Summit lifters. The Crowers have 2 valves.

As its very easy to open them, I'd inspect the valves of the faulty ones to make sure they're not stuck.

If they'd stayed too long on the shelves poorly lubricated or put together wrongly or with too thick grease or even having a tiny bit of corrosion, you could fix that in few instants.

They only need be shinny and receive a film of oil to operate as they should.

In my case it was the reverse, one of the new Summit was not put together correctly (retainer hat with a tiny angle). I could feel that after I've let them soak in oil and test with my thumb. In place, the pushrod felt much harder and would not come back to rest position right away.

I've open the old Crower I would not reuse first to make sure it was an easy procedure and potentially be able to salvage something from the old to new (impossible as they are totally different inside).  To inspect/fix is a piece of cake.

Showed me once more, that "new" means very little.

Thanks Fabrice, some great pics and information!

 

[jpaz]

Alright, so I finally got the intake manifold removed and I definitely have some bad lifters. I removed a few and submerged them in oil. I saw a couple small bubbles, but I can push them down pretty easily by finger. Even when they are totally submerged in oil, I can push them down the same. I know there’s even more.

So now I have to call the machine shop and see what happens about getting some new ones. They wouldn’t do anything till I did this test. I even have one soaking in oil overnight. The shop said that they will replace the bad ones with a new set, he just wanted to make sure they were the problem. Here’s a pic of the one of them. It has a flat spot machined in them.

 

[c9zx]

At least you know what the problem is. I'd suggest checking all cam lobe lifts with a dial indicator. Chuck

 

[jpaz]

At least you know what the problem is. I'd suggest checking all cam lobe lifts with a dial indicator. Chuck

Ya I did chase my tail for a while trying to figure it out, but at least I did.

 I don’t have a dial indicator. The lobes look fine, nothing unusual on them or the lifter bottoms. I cut the oil filter open and it looked good.

But I guess that would be a good idea to do. I should probably get one, been wanting one anyway.

 

[jpaz]

The one I soaked in oil overnight didn’t pump either. I can push the plunger down with my finger too.

I will call the shop tomorrow and see about getting new ones, but not sure that I want these cam savers. I think I just want to go with Crowers standard hydraulic lifter.

 

[turtle5353]

The one I soaked in oil overnight didn’t pump either. I can push the plunger down with my finger too.

I will call the shop tomorrow and see about getting new ones, but not sure that I want these cam savers. I think I just want to go with Crowers standard hydraulic lifter.

I would just go with the standard hydraulic lifter from Crowers too.

 

[c9zx]

At least you know what the problem is. I'd suggest checking all cam lobe lifts with a dial indicator. Chuck

Ya I did chase my tail for a while trying to figure it out, but at least I did.

 I don’t have a dial indicator. The lobes look fine, nothing unusual on them or the lifter bottoms. I cut the oil filter open and it looked good.

But I guess that would be a good idea to do. I should probably get one, been wanting one anyway.

This is what I use. https://www.jegs.com/i/Proform/778/66838/10002/-1  Chuck

 

[jpaz]

At least you know what the problem is. I'd suggest checking all cam lobe lifts with a dial indicator. Chuck

Ya I did chase my tail for a while trying to figure it out, but at least I did.

 I don’t have a dial indicator. The lobes look fine, nothing unusual on them or the lifter bottoms. I cut the oil filter open and it looked good.

But I guess that would be a good idea to do. I should probably get one, been wanting one anyway.

This is what I use. https://www.jegs.com/i/Proform/778/66838/10002/-1  Chuck

Thanks again Chuck!

 

[Fabrice]

btw for what it's worth.

Despite the one lifter that wasn't properly put together on the Summit set, I would actually prefer these above the Crower ones.

Sounds like B brand, but thing is they are more firm than the crowers, and having seen the guts they have also a smarter design inside.

Where the spring uses most of the radius of the cylinder, vs a much smaller one as in crowers.

That alone is preferable in my view as there is less metal stress on them and there is less chance for the valves inside getting out of line as they wear over time.

Oh and they might also be cheaper.

 

[jpaz]

btw for what it's worth.

Despite the one lifter that wasn't properly put together on the Summit set, I would actually prefer these above the Crower ones.

Sounds like B brand, but thing is they are more firm than the crowers, and having seen the guts they have also a smarter design inside.

Where the spring uses most of the radius of the cylinder, vs a much smaller one as in crowers.

That alone is preferable in my view as there is less metal stress on them and there is less chance for the valves inside getting out of line as they wear over time.

Oh and they might also be cheaper.

My machinist swears by these, just got off the phone with him. Says he’s never had a bad one or any problems with Crower, says everyone is inspected. They’ve been around for a long time, very reputable brand, but I don’t know what’s going on. Anyway I talked with Crower and they want me to send these back. So I am and will see what they say. Good thing it’s winter now. Getting 4-6 inches of snow today so not driving the car anytime soon.

 

[Stanglover]

btw for what it's worth.

Despite the one lifter that wasn't properly put together on the Summit set, I would actually prefer these above the Crower ones.

Sounds like B brand, but thing is they are more firm than the crowers, and having seen the guts they have also a smarter design inside.

Where the spring uses most of the radius of the cylinder, vs a much smaller one as in crowers.

That alone is preferable in my view as there is less metal stress on them and there is less chance for the valves inside getting out of line as they wear over time.

Oh and they might also be cheaper.

My machinist swears by these, just got off the phone with him. Says he’s never had a bad one or any problems with Crower, says everyone is inspected. They’ve been around for a long time, very reputable brand, but I don’t know what’s going on. Anyway I talked with Crower and they want me to send these back. So I am and will see what they say. Good thing it’s winter now. Getting 4-6 inches of snow today so not driving the car anytime soon.

 Ah, so this has gone way past a possible cracked distributor cap!! Out of my league for sure now, but interesting reading. I learn something new every day.

4-6" of snow in Mi, and I'm complaining about the 2" we have in SW Ontario!! You're welcome to it, this is waaayyy too early.

Geoff.

 

[cwalker509]

btw for what it's worth.

Despite the one lifter that wasn't properly put together on the Summit set, I would actually prefer these above the Crower ones.

Sounds like B brand, but thing is they are more firm than the crowers, and having seen the guts they have also a smarter design inside.

Where the spring uses most of the radius of the cylinder, vs a much smaller one as in crowers.

That alone is preferable in my view as there is less metal stress on them and there is less chance for the valves inside getting out of line as they wear over time.

Oh and they might also be cheaper.

My machinist swears by these, just got off the phone with him. Says he’s never had a bad one or any problems with Crower, says everyone is inspected. They’ve been around for a long time, very reputable brand, but I don’t know what’s going on. Anyway I talked with Crower and they want me to send these back. So I am and will see what they say. Good thing it’s winter now. Getting 4-6 inches of snow today so not driving the car anytime soon.

 Ah, so this has gone way past a possible cracked distributor cap!! Out of my league for sure now, but interesting reading. I learn something new every day.

4-6" of snow in Mi, and I'm complaining about the 2" we have in SW Ontario!! You're welcome to it, this is waaayyy too early.

Geoff.

Freezing rain this morning and snow now.  In MO.  We even had snow flurries Halloween morning.  It is a mess out there!  Good time to catch up on unread posts and fill some knowledge gaps.

 

[jpaz]

btw for what it's worth.

Despite the one lifter that wasn't properly put together on the Summit set, I would actually prefer these above the Crower ones.

Sounds like B brand, but thing is they are more firm than the crowers, and having seen the guts they have also a smarter design inside.

Where the spring uses most of the radius of the cylinder, vs a much smaller one as in crowers.

That alone is preferable in my view as there is less metal stress on them and there is less chance for the valves inside getting out of line as they wear over time.

Oh and they might also be cheaper.

My machinist swears by these, just got off the phone with him. Says he’s never had a bad one or any problems with Crower, says everyone is inspected. They’ve been around for a long time, very reputable brand, but I don’t know what’s going on. Anyway I talked with Crower and they want me to send these back. So I am and will see what they say. Good thing it’s winter now. Getting 4-6 inches of snow today so not driving the car anytime soon.

 Ah, so this has gone way past a possible cracked distributor cap!! Out of my league for sure now, but interesting reading. I learn something new every day.

4-6" of snow in Mi, and I'm complaining about the 2" we have in SW Ontario!! You're welcome to it, this is waaayyy too early.

Geoff.

We probably got more like 8-9 right now and it’s still coming down.

 

[Ron Tanzi]

So I have tried to reset the lash, but the lifters just won’t stay pumped up. I did remove and cut open the oil filter and it looks good. No metal particles or pieces of any kind so at least the camshaft should be fine. I now need to remove the intake manifold and try to soak the lifters in oil to see if I can get them to pump up. I know that they need to be put back in the same bore, so I will make sure of that.

I guess now I’m wondering if I did get a bad set of lifters. If so, will I be able to put new ones in with the camshaft I have in the engine? It only has 1200-1300 miles on it. I will ask Crower and see what they say too.

I have replaced the hydraulic lifters on my Cleveland 4 times starting in 2002. I started out with the original set of garbage comp lifters followed by a second set of (free warranty replacement) garbage Comp lifters. Then as an experiment I tried a set of generic summit lifters and finally a set of regular Crower lifters which is what I have been running in the engine for 8 years. I did this due to excess valve train noise.I just did the normal break in procedure each time and have had no issues with cam wear (I have checked). Although the Crower lifters got rid of much of the noise there is still a bit of tickyness. I have talked to many people who have used Comp cams is various applications and have concluded that the ticky issue  is due to the aggressive ramps of the lobes. I have a new Sealed power CJ cam (the Comp I have is a loose copy of the CJ) of that I will be putting in when time permits. My engine was originally a 2V and when I built it the first time 24 years ago I built it with the stock and a new stock cam and the valve train was quiet.

So yes you can change your lifters. I think as others do that the "cam saver" lifters having a tiny oiling hole are bleeding down. The conventional Crowers that I am using are very difficult to bleed down even with the special OTC lifter tool I have. Good luck.

Ron

 

[jpaz]

So I have tried to reset the lash, but the lifters just won’t stay pumped up. I did remove and cut open the oil filter and it looks good. No metal particles or pieces of any kind so at least the camshaft should be fine. I now need to remove the intake manifold and try to soak the lifters in oil to see if I can get them to pump up. I know that they need to be put back in the same bore, so I will make sure of that.

I guess now I’m wondering if I did get a bad set of lifters. If so, will I be able to put new ones in with the camshaft I have in the engine? It only has 1200-1300 miles on it. I will ask Crower and see what they say too.

I have replaced the hydraulic lifters on my Cleveland 4 times starting in 2002. I started out with the original set of garbage comp lifters followed by a second set of (free warranty replacement) garbage Comp lifters. Then as an experiment I tried a set of generic summit lifters and finally a set of regular Crower lifters which is what I have been running in the engine for 8 years. I did this due to excess valve train noise.I just did the normal break in procedure each time and have had no issues with cam wear (I have checked). Although the Crower lifters got rid of much of the noise there is still a bit of tickyness. I have talked to many people who have used Comp cams is various applications and have concluded that the ticky issue  is due to the aggressive ramps of the lobes. I have a new Sealed power CJ cam (the Comp I have is a loose copy of the CJ) of that I will be putting in when time permits. My engine was originally a 2V and when I built it the first time 24 years ago I built it with the stock and a new stock cam and the valve train was quiet.

So yes you can change your lifters. I think as others do that the "cam saver" lifters having a tiny oiling hole are bleeding down. The conventional Crowers that I am using are very difficult to bleed down even with the special OTC lifter tool I have. Good luck.

Ron

Thanks Ron, good to know. I am going to call Crower today to ask them what is different about the internals.

 

[jpaz]

I just talked with someone at Crower, and he told me that the cam saver lifters are exactly the same internally as their standard lifter. The only thing different is the flat spot on the outside that supplies a bit more oil to the cam.

I did send my bad ones back to my machinist, and then he has to send them back to Crower. They are in California so they haven’t received them yet. Will update when I know more.