Zero lash

[Ron Tanzi]

So I have tried to reset the lash, but the lifters just won’t stay pumped up. I did remove and cut open the oil filter and it looks good. No metal particles or pieces of any kind so at least the camshaft should be fine. I now need to remove the intake manifold and try to soak the lifters in oil to see if I can get them to pump up. I know that they need to be put back in the same bore, so I will make sure of that.

I guess now I’m wondering if I did get a bad set of lifters. If so, will I be able to put new ones in with the camshaft I have in the engine? It only has 1200-1300 miles on it. I will ask Crower and see what they say too.

I have replaced the hydraulic lifters on my Cleveland 4 times starting in 2002. I started out with the original set of garbage comp lifters followed by a second set of (free warranty replacement) garbage Comp lifters. Then as an experiment I tried a set of generic summit lifters and finally a set of regular Crower lifters which is what I have been running in the engine for 8 years. I did this due to excess valve train noise.I just did the normal break in procedure each time and have had no issues with cam wear (I have checked). Although the Crower lifters got rid of much of the noise there is still a bit of tickyness. I have talked to many people who have used Comp cams is various applications and have concluded that the ticky issue  is due to the aggressive ramps of the lobes. I have a new Sealed power CJ cam (the Comp I have is a loose copy of the CJ) of that I will be putting in when time permits. My engine was originally a 2V and when I built it the first time 24 years ago I built it with the stock and a new stock cam and the valve train was quiet.

So yes you can change your lifters. I think as others do that the "cam saver" lifters having a tiny oiling hole are bleeding down. The conventional Crowers that I am using are very difficult to bleed down even with the special OTC lifter tool I have. Good luck.

Ron

Thanks Ron, good to know. I am going to call Crower today to ask them what is different about the internals.

When I mentioned that the Crowers have a 'tiny oiling hole" I did not realize that they had machined a slot into the side of the lifter. I looked into "cam saver" type lifters in the past and I swear that one brand (I thought was Crower) had a small laser drilled hole in the face of the lifter to provide additional oiling to the cam lobe. Perhaps I am losing my mind LOL. Happy thanksgiving. Ron

 

[jpaz]

I have replaced the hydraulic lifters on my Cleveland 4 times starting in 2002. I started out with the original set of garbage comp lifters followed by a second set of (free warranty replacement) garbage Comp lifters. Then as an experiment I tried a set of generic summit lifters and finally a set of regular Crower lifters which is what I have been running in the engine for 8 years. I did this due to excess valve train noise.I just did the normal break in procedure each time and have had no issues with cam wear (I have checked). Although the Crower lifters got rid of much of the noise there is still a bit of tickyness. I have talked to many people who have used Comp cams is various applications and have concluded that the ticky issue  is due to the aggressive ramps of the lobes. I have a new Sealed power CJ cam (the Comp I have is a loose copy of the CJ) of that I will be putting in when time permits. My engine was originally a 2V and when I built it the first time 24 years ago I built it with the stock and a new stock cam and the valve train was quiet.

So yes you can change your lifters. I think as others do that the "cam saver" lifters having a tiny oiling hole are bleeding down. The conventional Crowers that I am using are very difficult to bleed down even with the special OTC lifter tool I have. Good luck.

Ron

Thanks Ron, good to know. I am going to call Crower today to ask them what is different about the internals.

When I mentioned that the Crowers have a 'tiny oiling hole" I did not realize that they had machined a slot into the side of the lifter. I looked into "cam saver" type lifters in the past and I swear that one brand (I thought was Crower) had a small laser drilled hole in the face of the lifter to provide additional oiling to the cam lobe. Perhaps I am losing my mind LOL. Happy thanksgiving. Ron

Hey Ron, good news, you’re not loosing your mind. There is a lifter that has a hole on the face of it. I forgot who makes it, but I have seen the one your thinking about. I do have the cam savers and they do not have that hole one the bottoms. Just a normal oiling hole like the standard ones.

 

[Don C]

You weren't dreaming, Ron.

https://www.speedwaymotors.com/COMP-Cams-817-1-Performance-Series-Lifter-Solid-Flat-Tappet-Ford-EA,221603.html?sku=2828171&msclkid=6b2f0c440c4b1b36f92a519d794407c9&utm_source=bing&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=SMI%20-%20Shopping%20(CSE)%20(Bing)&utm_term=4577404347345148&utm_content=All%20Products%20(Oct4_2019)

 

[Ron Tanzi]

Thanks Ron, good to know. I am going to call Crower today to ask them what is different about the internals.

When I mentioned that the Crowers have a 'tiny oiling hole" I did not realize that they had machined a slot into the side of the lifter. I looked into "cam saver" type lifters in the past and I swear that one brand (I thought was Crower) had a small laser drilled hole in the face of the lifter to provide additional oiling to the cam lobe. Perhaps I am losing my mind LOL. Happy thanksgiving. Ron

Hey Ron, good news, you’re not loosing your mind. There is a lifter that has a hole on the face of it. I forgot who makes it, but I have seen the one your thinking about. I do have the cam savers and they do not have that hole one the bottoms. Just a normal oiling hole like the standard ones.

Thanks, you made my day, I am a little young to start getting dementia. I did try finding the lifters in question (with face located oiling hole) on Summit, Jegs etc. but no dice. Do keep us all posted on how everything works out. Best of luck to you.  Ron

 

[TommyK]

When I mentioned that the Crowers have a 'tiny oiling hole" I did not realize that they had machined a slot into the side of the lifter. I looked into "cam saver" type lifters in the past and I swear that one brand (I thought was Crower) had a small laser drilled hole in the face of the lifter to provide additional oiling to the cam lobe. Perhaps I am losing my mind LOL. Happy thanksgiving. Ron

Hey Ron, good news, you’re not loosing your mind. There is a lifter that has a hole on the face of it. I forgot who makes it, but I have seen the one your thinking about. I do have the cam savers and they do not have that hole one the bottoms. Just a normal oiling hole like the standard ones.

Thanks, you made my day, I am a little young to start getting dementia. I did try finding the lifters in question (with face located oiling hole) on Summit, Jegs etc. but no dice. Do keep us all posted on how everything works out. Best of luck to you.  Ron

The edm hole in the face is done on solid lifters only. Crower's edm solid lifters are marketed as "cool face" lifters.

 

[Ron Tanzi]

You weren't dreaming, Ron.

https://www.speedwaymotors.com/COMP-Cams-817-1-Performance-Series-Lifter-Solid-Flat-Tappet-Ford-EA,221603.html?sku=2828171&msclkid=6b2f0c440c4b1b36f92a519d794407c9&utm_source=bing&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=SMI%20-%20Shopping%20(CSE)%20(Bing)&utm_term=4577404347345148&utm_content=All%20Products%20(Oct4_2019)

Thanks Don. It was bugging me. Now we all know. 

Ron

 

[jpaz]

So here’s an update to this thread.

I talked with Crower Cams today about my lifters. They got them back and took them apart. Here’s what they found. They said it is some kind of fiber like paper towel or the oil filter. There’s no way it can be anything other than the filter. I think it was coming apart just enough to get those chunks of fiber in the lifters. That’s what you can see in the pics. And I did cut the oil filter open to look for any contamination, but I was really looking for metal, not paper fibers. I of course threw it out, but I did notice that the filter material seamed kinda fuzzy? Or I guess the fibers looked loose, not sure how to explain it but it seemed cheaply made. I was using a normal Motorcraft FL-1A filter. They told me not to use that filter anymore and use a NAPA gold, but also said make sure it’s made in USA, not Mexico.

Now I have to by new lifters cause they aren’t faulty, but they are really giving me a good deal on them. 65 bucks plus shipping, so I am getting them. The guy I talked to was really helpful and explained everything to me. I have to drain the oil, put a new filter on and spin the oil pump before I put new lifters in. Then drain the oil and change filter again. Hopefully this will flush out this stuff, might do it a couple of times.





image host site

 

[Ron Tanzi]

So here’s an update to this thread.

I talked with Crower Cams today about my lifters. They got them back and took them apart. Here’s what they found. They said it is some kind of fiber like paper towel or the oil filter. There’s no way it can be anything other than the filter. I think it was coming apart just enough to get those chunks of fiber in the lifters. That’s what you can see in the pics. And I did cut the oil filter open to look for any contamination, but I was really looking for metal, not paper fibers. I of course threw it out, but I did notice that the filter material seamed kinda fuzzy? Or I guess the fibers looked loose, not sure how to explain it but it seemed cheaply made. I was using a normal Motorcraft FL-1A filter. They told me not to use that filter anymore and use a NAPA gold, but also said make sure it’s made in USA, not Mexico.

Now I have to by new lifters cause they aren’t faulty, but they are really giving me a good deal on them. 65 bucks plus shipping, so I am getting them. The guy I talked to was really helpful and explained everything to me. I have to drain the oil, put a new filter on and spin the oil pump before I put new lifters in. Then drain the oil and change filter again. Hopefully this will flush out this stuff, might do it a couple of times.





image host site That finding is troubling. I only use Wix or Napa gold filters (the Napa being also manufactured by Wix) on my own and my customers cars. I was a Fram user for years until I cut a Fram PH8A filter open about 8 years ago and realized that they devolved into bad quality overseas junk. I was surprised that the Motorcraft FL-1A filters now suck as well. It is a drag that you did everything right and still got stuck with a major hassle and having to buy new lifters. There is a Youtube video on oil filters everyone should watch RE: Oil filter quality. The Wix and Napa won out. Ron

 

[boilermaster]

Jpaz,

Hmmm, paper fibers from a paper media oil filter, go figure.

Not trying to be an ass, but I would be willing to bet good money that if one were to cut open ANY high quality oil filter and rinse it one time , that you will get paper fiber and paper dust if you have a way to collect it (filter).

When I was in my Harley Shovelhead days, I bought a $200.00 PURE POWER oil filter, it is re-useable and uses stainless wire mesh as a filter media.

I cleaned the filter @ 100 miles and it was amazing what came out of it, paper fibers, paper dust, gasket beading and gasket fibers, the second time I cleaned it 95% of that stuff was gone, never to re-appear.

it is truly amazing how much money we spend on our machines and how much faith we are willing to put into a $8 dollar oil filter (myself included)

Ever been inside a working paper mill, dust, lots of dust and lots of loose fibers.

You have proof of the contaminents, but I suspect this may be a common answer used my manufactures for lifter failure.

NOWI am thinking of spending some real money on an oil filter for my nearly new 408.

 Boilermaster

 

[jpaz]

I got my new lifters from Crower this week. And I did get their standard ones, not the cam savers. Today I cleaned the old gasket material and sealant from the block, intake and valve covers. Wasn’t too bad since the motor only has 1500 miles since being rebuilt. I still need to drain the oil, then put in a few quarts and spin the oil pump to flush the block. Then I can put the new lifters in and get everything back together. Got some assembly lube and the break in oil, so I’m going to get it back together pretty soon. Hopefully we’ll get a little break with the weather and I can open the garage door and do the break in. Garage is heated, so nice and cozy working on the car, but it’s 28 degrees outside. Don’t really need to have the door open for 30 minutes so I will wait for some warmer weather.

 

[Fabrice]

@boilermaster

NOWI am thinking of spending some real money on an oil filter

These days spending real money is more than easy, getting the right stuff is more difficult.

I have on shelves, 2 Ford perf ones left, as Ph8A types filter are kinda pricy overhere and the places where I can buy them have no idea about their quality,

So bought once a box with 12 Ford perf filters in it, and serviced my t-birds with them for years. Never seen any paper residues in these.

I did saw poor filtering using Fram before I went over Ford perf, but no residues either.

As I need to buy new ones and can't find these Fords filter boxes online again, what's a good filter you can count on these days?

@jpaz

Glad you have your lifters mystery solved!

Man, these rockers&pushrods look so gorgeous you'd almost need transparent valves covers!

 

[c9zx]

Wix, Wix Racing, Ford Racing. Chuck

 

[jpaz]

@boilermaster

NOWI am thinking of spending some real money on an oil filter

These days spending real money is more than easy, getting the right stuff is more difficult.

I have on shelves, 2 Ford perf ones left, as Ph8A types filter are kinda pricy overhere and the places where I can buy them have no idea about their quality,

So bought once a box with 12 Ford perf filters in it, and serviced my t-birds with them for years. Never seen any paper residues in these.

I did saw poor filtering using Fram before I went over Ford perf, but no residues either.

As I need to buy new ones and can't find these Fords filter boxes online again, what's a good filter you can count on these days?

@jpaz

Glad you have your lifters mystery solved!

Man, these rockers&pushrods look so gorgeous you'd almost need transparent valves covers!

I am switching to the Wix brand filter. They are made in USA. Only thing is that if you’re looking for a concourse car, then you would have to use the Motorcraft, but I don’t care about that. I just want a high quality filter that doesn’t come apart and does what it is supposed to do.

Well, I sure hope that this got figured out. Still haven’t really seen the stuff they found in my old lifters. When I drain the oil I will strain it and see what is in it. 

Ya, the rockers are Crane Gold and pushrods are Trick Flow. Here’s a pic of them on the engine.

 

[mjseakan]

Those rockers would look pretty cool under glass. 

 

[Fabrice]

@c9zx thx, will look for these.

@jpaz

[ Only thing is that if you’re looking for a concourse car]

Nah not my league, just like you, I'm only after parts that match or enhance the original specs.

 

[tony-muscle]

Any thoughts on Royal Purple oil filters? I have been using them in my newly built engine.

 

[jpaz]

Any thoughts on Royal Purple oil filters? I have been using them in my newly built engine.

I didn’t know that they made one. I’ve never heard anything bad about Royal Purple, so probably good. I wonder if they make it or source it out. Same with the Motorcraft, not really sure who or where made. At least the Wix does say made in USA on them.

 

[turtle5353]

Word on the street is that Purolater makes the Motorcraft FL1A.

 

[73pony]

Word on the street is that Purolater makes the Motorcraft FL1A.

That is my understanding as well.

 

[73pony]

Is there any reason not to run the Wix Racing (51515R) Vs the Wix (51515)? would the high flow filter cause any issues? The price difference on Amazon is only about $1.