351 engine tear down

[Manu Mach1]

Experimentation I would say as I never been so far in a restoration.

A lot of crap wason the heads, and under the pan valley, surely caused by a very poor maintenance. When I opened the engine last evening, the smell remind me some location with H2S, but no I was not on a job.

I have a few push rods bented.

Any suggestions are welcome, I need to refer to books and documentation I have to continue the job, and of course the help of this site ::thumb::

 

[mustang7173]

Manu Mach1,

IMO, one of the best books on rebuilding your 351C. I used this book when I rebuilt mine some years ago.

How To Rebuild Ford V8 Engines: 351C, 351M, 400, 429, 460 Cubic-Inch V-8s

By Tom Monroe

How to rebuild Ford V8 motors: 351C, 351M, 400, 429 or 460 c.i. ISBN-10: 0895860368 | ISBN-13: 9780895860361 |

http://www.themotorbookstore.com/9780895860361.html

mustang7173

 

[will e]

Yeah, the valley looks like some sludge build up but the bottom end doesn't look too bad. And 4 bolt mains! Very nice!

What kind of advice are you looking for? What kind of rebuild do you plan? Are you going to bore it out and replace the pistons?

Keep track of things like where each main cap came off of and which direction it is in.

 

[Manu Mach1]

I have a book from George Reid, the Chilton, the one from Haynes but not this one.

Yes a four bolt main, I was happy to discover that last night.

So about the rebuild, I don't know yet what I'll do, but if the bore is in good condition, I will leave as it is, simply change the piston rings.

But in case I change them, I guess I should choose some dome pistons to get more compression.

I need to see how are the rod bearings, cap bearings, lifters.......

Well, I probably need to change a lot a parts, so if I can leave it with the original bore, for economic reason, I will. I don't need a race car, radars everywhere around here and I will gain extra power only to change the timing set.

 

[Don C]

You will need to take a lot of measurements to determine what you need to do. Measuring the cylinder walls for size, roundness, and taper, along with the condition of the walls and the ridge at the top of the cylinders, will tell you if you need to have it bored.

Because of the sludge I'm guessing the ring lands are worn and you'll need the replace the pistons.

Replace all of the bearings. You will need to take numerous measurements on the crankshaft to determine if it needs to be ground or is reusable. Check the clearances in the lifter bores and valve guides.

Take the block and heads to a machine shop and have them boiled out. If you don't need to have the cylinders bored I would have them remove the ridge and hone the cylinders. Also have them check them for trueness and have them surfaced if needed. If you don't have hardened valve seats have them installed. Have valve guides and lifter bushings installed, if needed.

This is just some general and brief guidelines, the books mentioned above will fill in all of the details.

 

[Manu Mach1]

All pistons are out. They all look the same, rings are not stucked or broken.

Bearings are copper color, means need to be changed.

Tomorrow I'll remove the main bearings.

 

[Carolina_Mountain_Mustangs]

I know it is too late now but others will learn. If you thought you were going to reuse the pistons you should have used a "ridge reamer" to cut the ridge off the top of the cylinders. The sharp edge on the top compression ring and others catches on the edge in the block and you car crack the piston. The front two cylinders usually have the most wear because of the difference in the water temp keeping those cylinders tighter. A Cleveland has a different cooling system and I have never rebuilt one but 302, 240, 429 and older engine I have worked on always did.

The sludge was not bad at all for an engine with this age. Sludge is usually a sign of short runs on the engine not getting the moisture inside the block dried out and it mixes with the oil and makes sludge.

A paraffin base oil is also more prone to build up sludge.

I myself would never tear down any engine without a full rebuild. Find a machine shop that knows what they are doing that will resize your rods check for twist and install the new pistons correctly. The way the cylinders are honed makes a big difference in how the rings seat on the run in. The hard valve seats are a must with todays gas. I like for a machine shop to install the bearings and torque the caps and measure the bearings in place. Then they subtract the correct oil clearance and grind the crank to fit the bearings not just a theoretically correct nominal dimension. Everything has tolerance bores in the rod ends the bearing shells etc.

Like others have said a good book will guide you through. If the water jacket has lots of rust from someone running straight water I would go to a molasses tank to clean the rust out of the jacket. This would be after the hot tank at the machine shop to remove the sludge. Make sure the shop pulls all plugs and caps off the oil & water galleys. Get one of the spiral brush kits to clean out those passages and wash everything yourself with hot soapy water and blow dry and spray with WD-40 and wrap in plastic bags before you assemble. Wash all your wrenches, sockets, ratchet, torque wrench anything you are going to use to assemble the engine. A good solid engine stand is a must a Cleveland is a heavy engine and you will be turning it in all positions while putting together. Keep everything covered with plastic bags when you can. Race shops actually have a clean room they do the engine assembly in. Work in a clean draft free area. Lube all the components as the manufacturer suggests. DO NOT put Molly coat on any of the fasteners or anything other than what is recommended by the manufacturer. You can over tighten bolts even with a torque wrench if there is a slippery lube on the threads. I would switch to a set of ARP fasteners. Run a tap into all holes that are tapped and blow out with compressed air before sending to the shop to clean. Some of the fasteners can be tightened to a stretch instead of torque which is more accurate way.

Your book will show you how to orient the rings for proper seal. When you get the engine in and ready to start have your timing light ready and set timing and then immediately do your run in according to the cam manufacturer. Usually around 2,000 rpm for a give time. The rings seat with the first heat cycle of the block and gradually wear after that. Make sure the oil pan rail is flat before installing a little hammer and dolly work will keep away leaks. Rear main seal if very important.

Back in the days of the Model T Henry Ford built the engines and since bearings were poured and worked to size he would hook the engines up to an outside drive and rotate the engine to wear everything in. Today we measure and machine everything in so the cam face, lifters and rings are really the only items that seat everything else is either right or wrong. Your head gasket and intake gasket manufacturer might suggest a re-torque after a heat cycle also. Don't go putting a high lift cam and triple valve springs in to impress your buddies with the sound unless you want to do it all over in just a few miles on the road. Performance comes with a cost that is up to you what you are willing to do over time. Racing parts does not mean long lasting parts.

Do you have another of those 4 bolt blocks laying around I could use one. You can drill and machine any of them and add the other two bolts but lots of work.

Good luck and keep the pictures going it lets other know they can do the same as you and not have to pay someone else. You will smile very time you fire it up.

David

 

[barnett468]

unfortunately, there is no possible way would leave the bore and orig pistons

 

[Manu Mach1]

That's a lot of information you give me. Thank you.

Learning by doing, I know that, and I do mistakes, this will help others. Anyway, the engine is almost totally naked, the distributor is "welded" in it's place, now WD40 is working I hope, I don't want to destroy it using a big hammer. Then the camshaft will come and probably will be in bad condition.

Most of the job will be done by myself, I need to find a serious machinery shop for the crankshaft.

 

[MeZapU]

My experience from building an 351c overseas (England) was I could not get it bored and honed using torque plates, and balancing was so expensive it was cost prohibitive at the time. They wanted something to the tune of $650(exchange rate was almost $1.80 to the pound at the time) if my memory serves me correctly and I just couldn't afford it. This was back in 1999. I was also disappointed with the way they cleaned the block. I wanted it hot-tanked and super cleaned but they more or less just ran it through a solvent tank. It came back looking rusty and with flaking paint almost just as I gave it to them save for the machined surfaces.

All the rest of the machining tasks are pretty standard for a well equipped shop.

 

[piper62j]

It's very difficult to find a good machine shop these days.. The machinists just don't have the background needed to do quality work anymore due to our throw-away society.. If an engine goes bad now, it just gets replaced..

 

[Stanglover]

Some very interesting information here. I too am in that process of rebuilding my '71 351C4V. I would be interested to learn what the casting and date code your 4 bolt block is.

 

[4Vforever]

To be honest I wouldn't even worry about trying to save those Pistons, as just about every Cleveland I've ever done, the top ring land has had excessive wear, plus the bores are usually shot, especially in engines with poor maintainance. You could possibly machine the ring land and put in a spacer, but by the time you do that, it would be just as expensive as buying a set of new Pistons. The only way to know for sure is to measure everything as has been previously said. Until the measuring on everything has been done, then you'll know exactly where you stand. As for a machine shop over there, I'd try to find someone who has experience on US V8 engines and has a very good reputation in doing them, if you can't find anyone like that, then somebody with experience older type engines, again with a good reputation. Good machining is as important as using good parts and if the machining isn't up to scratch, then it won't matter what parts you use as the chance for failure will be high anyway. Depending on what you want out of the engine will determine what you need to do with it, as is how much you want to spend. As the saying goes, good engines ain't cheap and cheap engines ain't good. Assembling the engine yourself will save you a few dollars also and its not that difficult to do, plus if you get stuck or uncertain of something, there are plenty of knowledgable people on here to help you out. So find a really good machine shop and get everything measured up firstly, get prices of the work they're going to do ie: bore and hone, hot tank parts, R & R cam bearings and so on, price up the parts you'll be needing, then you'll know which way you'll want to go and what your budget allows for. All the best with it and keep us all informed.

 

[Manu Mach1]

I found one shop about 3 hours drive from home, I will him the block, crankshaft, cam shaft, heads and pistons, I need to go there with all specifications to first measure what can be possoble to do, then I will let him put in place the crankshaft with the new bearings, more safe.

Exactly what you said 4Vforever, step by step and organisation.

The block is a D2AE-CA and heads are D3ZE AA. On the crankshaft, I found some information as it should be stamped 4M but I found nothing.

One of the push rods is well damaged, like it was touching the head up and down and it's bended, like a few others.

 

[Carolina_Mountain_Mustangs]

The valve train takes a beating. When a car sits the springs under compression loose some of their pressure. You probably had a valve that was sticking that bent the pushrod. If it were me I would replace everything in the engine but the crank, rods, block and heads. As you are grinding the crank have them check the rods and resize if needed and get all new valve train components. Also remember the valve seat hard inserts.

The casting number on the block is the same for 2 bolt and 4 bolt blocks since all they had to do was drill the extra hole for the 4 bolt. You cannot identify a 4 bolt block without pulling the pan unless someone out there knows another marking.

If you have a 4 bolt block and it is bad and cannot be saved always save the main caps they can be installed on a 2 bolt block with some machining and align bore.

David

 

[Manu Mach1]

Sure the shop will install hard valve seats on the exaust, then don't need anymore additive in the gas.

Hope the block is not dead, if so I can't continue the process as it's not possible to me to order one from the US.

David please tell me something positive

 

[Manu Mach1]

The book "How To Rebuild Ford V8 Engines" is on his way, I'm sure is a very good helper for me.

The camshaft:

According to "Mustangtek", looks like the camshaft is PN D1ZZ-6250-A, but not easy to read. If so, is it still 4° retarded?



Is it damaged?



About the crankshaft, I canno't identify it:


I found this interesting thread.

http://www.7173mustangs.com/thread-71-73-351c-original-cam-specs

 

[barnett468]

yes, the cam gear is damaged so it is trash

the crank is lightly scored so it needs to be reground.

the push rods are junk because they are rusty . they wee rubbing on the guide place or the cylinder head . . not good.

 

[Manu Mach1]

How it's possible to destroy the camshaft like that? The sprocket on the distributor is like new.

What camshaft should I use? I would like to stay as stock as possible.

Is Sealed Power CS650 a good choice for a stock cam replacement?