Fresh off the DYNO!

7173Mustangs.com

Help Support 7173Mustangs.com:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
Joined
Aug 17, 2019
Messages
220
Reaction score
120
Location
Fort Mac, Alberta
My Car
'73 Vert
4R70W
351C 2V 441 hp @ 6000 RPM
SEFI EEC-V (2004)
Weiand 7615 intake
Edlbrk 61629 heads
Icon flattops 10.66:1
Comp Hyd cam Hyd rollers
Well after almost 2 full years at the mechanics shop, my 351C 2V rebuild is complete.
Dyno'd out at 441 hp at 6000 rpm with a 750 CFM carb from the rebuilders shop. He said it was still gaining hp at 6000 but it was running a bit lean so he called it, I am switching the engine over to EFI so I didn't bother having him tune the carb to find out how much he could get out of it. Once the engine is in and tuned I will put it back on the Dyno to find out what I am putting down at the rear tires.







View attachment IMG_1630.MOV
 
Well after almost 2 full years at the mechanics shop, my 351C 2V rebuild is complete.
Dyno'd out at 441 hp at 6000 rpm with a 750 CFM carb from the rebuilders shop. He said it was still gaining hp at 6000 but it was running a bit lean so he called it, I am switching the engine over to EFI so I didn't bother having him tune the carb to find out how much he could get out of it. Once the engine is in and tuned I will put it back on the Dyno to find out what I am putting down at the rear tires.







View attachment 85640
Congrats! Sounds like it was worth the wait!
 
Aces,
Even though they are two totally different animals $2 says you won't beat the dyno carb.
Have you decided on what EFI you intend to run ?
if Holley, do yourself a favor and check throttle blades for being uniform before install.
Great numbers btw.
Boilermaster
The SEFI decision was not based solely on power. From most of the direct testing I have seen a guy wont gain much hp by just switching to fuel injection. What it gives you is an ever-increasing understanding of how you can tweak your power, fuel economy and dependability. EFI is always monitoring your emissions and making adjustments, whereas carburation is a set-it-and-forget-it deal with no tangible feedback. I don't hate on carbs, I just really like being able to turn the key and go no matter where I am. No need to make physical adjustments for climate or elevation, it's all on the laptop.
I am running a Ford EEC-V from a 2004 Lincoln Town Car with sequential injection. It's a very pricey upgrade but it also allows for integration with a 4R70W transmission that shifts electronically. Visit EFIDYNOTUNING.com to see if it's for you. Cypher is a retired Ford engineer that was working with this era of ECU and can teach you how to tune your own vehicle. I seriously can't wait to get this thing on the road.
I went to do a rough fit so I could determine the best place for welding bungs into the headers for the oxygen sensors and discovered I must have left my motor mounts at the mechanics shop in Edmonton, 4 hours away. Grrrr.
 
OK, now we need build specs and dyno sheets!!!
Here is the last pull he did from 4200 to 6000 rpm. I looked in my pack and the complete graph isn't there, he forgot to pack it up. I emailed and he said he would send it. This is with NO port matching or porting work completed of any kind on new heads and a new intake.

Additionally, I will take your $2 bet because he kept the dyno safe at 32 degrees of timing and I didn't waste any money trying to tune in a carb I had no intention of using. He estimated he could easily get another 27 hp with a bit more timing and adding another 200 rpm which puts the build slightly over my goal of 450 hp, so I am pleased. The torque curve looks pretty flat too peaking at 414 ftlbs around 5100 rpm is going to feel great through the entire range.

Depending on how long it takes me to finish the rest of the car, I will likely add a couple of upgrades like a 7 quart pan (6000 rpm is pretty close to max for the 6 quart on it), I will check for space when I get the mounts and do the rough fit. The Weiand intake is pretty close to stock height but may need to be shaved down to fit under the NACA hood as well, if I have to pull the intake I will get it port matched and get it flow tested to see if some mild intake and port work will unlock restrained ponies.

Here is the build-out from my home page.

Cylinders were bored to .030 over and stroke remained stock @ 3.5000
IC688C/KTD 2cc Flat Top Forged Pistons with 4000BD8.025 rings @ 1/16, 1/16, 3/16
-after decking to even it out the final is a 10.66:1 Compression Ratio
King Main Bearings
M-84A Oil Pump with IS-84A Drive
32-000-11 Comp Hydraulic Cam on Tymer FP26G Grooved Bearings .621/.624 Lift, LSA of 112 with 237/247 Duration @ .050
8931M-16 Hydraulic Roller Lifters
Weiand XCelerator 2V intake with Shorty Holley 76 psi injectors bunged in for the SEFI with Fuel Rails.
Went with Aluminum Edelbrock 61629 2V 60cc combustion chamber 190cc intake heads
-914-16 Comp Valve Springs
-741-16 Retainers 10 degrees with 630-16 10 Degree Valve Locks
-B202HP Valve Spring Shims
-1630 Comp Rockers
-7693-16 Comp Push Rods
Oil mods to the #1 bearing to keep pressure high
ARP Fasteners
High valve covers for the extended lift.
 

Attachments

  • 18505-1.jpg
    18505-1.jpg
    1.5 MB · Views: 0
Last edited:
That's Awesome!
Thanks Will. And thanks again for showing me your 73 vert when I was down in Phoenix last week. That is one beautiful car brother. I love that blue!
 
Finally got my motor mounts back from the mechanic and finished a test fit. Man am I a happy camper! NACA hood plenum and nostrils fit perfectly. I still have the MSD distributor mounted from the Dyno test but it will be coming off the the Camshaft Synchronizer will take its place. The Cam Sync is much smaller so it will fit under the air cleaner bowl no problem. I installed the rubber seal and closed the hood and the fit is perfect. I can't tell you how relieved I am. I may even be able to work a spacer in under the throttle body.
I am using an Edelbrock throttle body and the Pro-M (inside air cleaner) MAF if you're thinking SEFI in the future.
What air cleaner are you other NASA kids using?
Also found the headers almost touch the steering box but I have a bracket to move it, so I will try it to see how it works.
Seems like there is tons of space on the passenger side header for an Oxygen sensor, so I think that's where I will tap into the header collector.
Just waiting on a transmission mount to test that out then I can yank the motor and finish the body work. Has anyone come up with a good option for a 4R70W swap tranny mount? I found a flexible AOD swap mount that looks like it may work. I am gonna test that one out to see.
Miles to go but I feel like it is starting to come together.
 

Attachments

  • IMG_1653.jpeg
    IMG_1653.jpeg
    2 MB · Views: 1
  • IMG_1655.jpeg
    IMG_1655.jpeg
    2 MB · Views: 1
  • IMG_1654.jpeg
    IMG_1654.jpeg
    1.6 MB · Views: 0
Last edited:
Finally got my motor mounts back from the mechanic and finished a test fit. Man I a happy camper! NACA hood plenum and nostrils fit perfectly. I still have the MSD distributor mounted from the Dyno test but it will be coming off the the Camshaft Synchronizer will take its place. The Cam Sync is much smaller so it will fit under the air cleaner bowl no problem. I installed the rubber seal and closed the hood and the fit is perfect. I can't tell you how relieved I am. I may even be able to work a spacer in under the throttle body.
I am using an Edelbrock throttle body and the Pro-M (inside air cleaner) MAF if you're thinking SEFI in the future.
What air cleaner are you other NASA kids using?
Also found the headers almost touch the steering pump but I have a bracket to move the pump, so I will try it to see how it works.
Seems like there is tons of space on the passenger side header for an Oxygen sensor, so I think that's where I will tap into the header collector.
Just waiting on a transmission mount to test that out then I can yank the motor and finish the body work. Has anyone come up with a good option for a 4R70W swap tranny mount? I found a flexible AOD swap mount that looks like it may work. I am gonna test that one out to see.
Miles to go but I feel like it is starting to come together.
Nice build.
For filter I used an Edelbrock 43667.
My headers also run very close to the steering box (not pump). If that's the case I have not had any issues. A couple of years ago I wrapped the headers on that section just as an added measure but it run very well without it. As a note, I have ceramic coated headers which will reduce the exterior temp.
 
Nice build.
For filter I used an Edelbrock 43667.
My headers also run very close to the steering box (not pump). If that's the case I have not had any issues. A couple of years ago I wrapped the headers on that section just as an added measure but it run very well without it. As a note, I have ceramic coated headers which will reduce the exterior temp.
Thanks Tony, yes steering box not pump.
Thanks for the filter info, 3" should fit just right without cutting airflow around the rim.
 
The SEFI decision was not based solely on power. From most of the direct testing I have seen a guy wont gain much hp by just switching to fuel injection. What it gives you is an ever-increasing understanding of how you can tweak your power, fuel economy and dependability. EFI is always monitoring your emissions and making adjustments, whereas carburation is a set-it-and-forget-it deal with no tangible feedback. I don't hate on carbs, I just really like being able to turn the key and go no matter where I am. No need to make physical adjustments for climate or elevation, it's all on the laptop.
I am running a Ford EEC-V from a 2004 Lincoln Town Car with sequential injection. It's a very pricey upgrade but it also allows for integration with a 4R70W transmission that shifts electronically. Visit EFIDYNOTUNING.com to see if it's for you. Cypher is a retired Ford engineer that was working with this era of ECU and can teach you how to tune your own vehicle. I seriously can't wait to get this thing on the road.
I went to do a rough fit so I could determine the best place for welding bungs into the headers for the oxygen sensors and discovered I must have left my motor mounts at the mechanics shop in Edmonton, 4 hours away. Grrrr.
This is the first time I have seen anyone make a realistic reason to go to an EFI aftermarket system. I have always told folks that going to an EFI system is not about getting more power than one can achieve with carburetor fueling. The reaons I felt warranted the costly move was usually related to routine extreme changes in elevation, or to eliminate the need for different issues with older carburetor and point/condenser primary ignition systems (point rubbing block wearing causing timing to retard, vacuum advance diaphragm rupturing causing overall loss of advance). Until reading the writing from Aces Arneson I felt such a move was not at all necessary. But, now my interest is piqued, significantly.

Once of the factors involves the management of a 4R70W transmission. We swapped in an AOD in our 73 Mach 1, and I am glad we did it. But, I really (in retrospect) feel I would have been better off with an 4R70W in order to be able to more easily control its shift points, as opposed to having to alter the Throttle Valve Pressure level in order to increase the road speed when the 1-2, 2-3, and 3-OD shifts would occur. The 35PSI TV pressure let the AOD upshift far sooner than I liked. I eventually ended up at 39 PSI where the shift points are at noticeably higher MPH levels, but what a PITA to do that.

As nice as our 351W street/strip built engine (not 351C) runs, I am now actually tempted to bite the bullet and install an EEC-V system while also swapping the AOD with a much more adaptable/programmable 4R70W OD tranny. The AOD gear ratios work really nicely with our 3.5:11 TractionLok rear axle, so I will check on the gear ratios on an 4R70W to make sure they are the same or really close to the AOD ratios. I would not a litle lower 1st gear ratio to get even more off-the-line launch performance, just because. It is not really needed, but it would provide one more excuse to make this move...

I must say that not only do I love this hobby, and thoroughly enjoy having the time and resources to tinker like this, but I also immensely enjoy reading, and writing, different suggestions in how to have ever more fun working on our vintage ponies...
 

Attachments

  • AllPonyCarsAndGilWithLynda_4of4_20211007.JPG
    AllPonyCarsAndGilWithLynda_4of4_20211007.JPG
    5 MB · Views: 0
Last edited:
This is the first time I have seen anyone make a realistic reason to go to an EFI aftermarket system. I have always told folks that going to an EFI system is not about getting more power than one can achieve with carburetor fueling. The reaons I felt warranted the costly move was usually related to routine extreme changes in elevation, or to eliminate the need for different issues with older carburetor and point/condenser primary ignition systems (point rubbing block wearing causing timing to retard, vacuum advance diaphragm rupturing causing overall loss of advance). Until reading the writing from Aces Arneson I felt such a move was not at all necessary. But, now my interest is piqued, significantly.

Once of the factors involves the management of a 4R70W transmission. We swapped in an AOD in our 73 Mach 1, and I am glad we did it. But, I really (in retrospect) feel I would have been better off with an 4R70W in order to be able to more easily control its shift points, as opposed to having to alter the Throttle Valve Pressure level in order to increase the road speed when the 1-2, 2-3, and 3-OD shifts would occur. The 35PSI TV pressure let the AOD upshift far sooner than I liked. I eventually ended up at 39 PSI where the shift points are at noticeably higher MPH levels, but what a PITA to do that.

As nice as our 351W street/strip built engine (not 351C) runs, I am now actually tempted to bite the bullet and install an EEC-V system while also swapping the AOD with a much more adaptable/programmable 4R70W OD tranny. The AOD gear ratios work really nicely with our 3.5:11 TractionLok rear axle, so I will check on the gear ratios on an 4R70W to make sure they are the same or really close to the AOD ratios. I would not a litle lower 1st gear ratio to get even more off-the-line launch performance, just because. It is not really needed, but it would provide one more excuse to make this move...

I must say that not only do I love this hobby, and thoroughly enjoy having the time and resources to tinker like this, but I also immensely enjoy reading, and writing, different suggestions in how to have ever more fun working on our vintage ponies...
Aces, I hope you are pleased with yourself. My mind is performing at warp drive speed as I ponder moving to an EEC-V system on our 1973 Mach 1 also. Blast it! I finally have it running so nicely, then you come along and share some really sensible information... heh heh... Now I am finding myself digging up all kinds of information on an EEC-V conversion. One question comes up time and again in my mind. Did you set your EEC-V retrofit system in a manner where you can connect OBD-II test equipment?

Another question, do you know the CFP rating of the EEC-V system at wide open throttle? I am running a vacuum secondary Holley now, and at higher RPMs at WOT I can both hear and feel the secondaries opening as the demand for more fuel and air increases while the RPMs are going up. I hope to not end up limiting the incoming CFM potential when moving to the EEC-V system.

Ciao!

Gil
 
Aces, I hope you are pleased with yourself. My mind is performing at warp drive speed as I ponder moving to an EEC-V system on our 1973 Mach 1 also. Blast it! I finally have it running so nicely, then you come along and share some really sensible information... heh heh... Now I am finding myself digging up all kinds of information on an EEC-V conversion. One question comes up time and again in my mind. Did you set your EEC-V retrofit system in a manner where you can connect OBD-II test equipment?

Another question, do you know the CFP rating of the EEC-V system at wide open throttle? I am running a vacuum secondary Holley now, and at higher RPMs at WOT I can both hear and feel the secondaries opening as the demand for more fuel and air increases while the RPMs are going up. I hope to not end up limiting the incoming CFM potential when moving to the EEC-V system.

Ciao!

Gil
This conversion allows for so much more tinkering than I was even looking for. Just like you, I hopped down this rabbit hole after reading some information online that grabbed my attention.
One thing you should consider before making a decision on whether you will use an authentic Ford ECM or whether you will use another system like Aces, Eastwood, Holley, 460 EFI guys, or a multitude of others is; do you want to learn to tune yourself, or are you happy with letting a tuner dial it in for you? Either road is fairly expensive and time consuming. When you buy a kit from one of the aforementioned companies, it will come with a standard package where all parts are included. If you opt for the authentic Ford route you will be on your own to round up the parts from several other suppliers. Additionally you will have to access someone who knows how to tune Ford ECM’s. There is a guy that can teach you how that goes by the name Cypher and has a website called EFIDYNOTuning. He will help anyone as long as they make a donation to keeping his site up and running. The only hold-back I would have at encouraging anyone to start down this path is acquiring the tuning equipment. There is a device that makes the actual tuning possible called a Moates Quaurterhorse. This device jacks in to a Ford ECM to allow you to read live data and make changes live. I heard that I purchased the last one made so perhaps you should check into that first before deciding to take this path. Alternately you can make changes through an OBD-II port with other connectors but it can not be done live. If you contact Cypher at EFIDynotuning he might know the best route. Alternatively he can tune your car for you, for me this wasn’t an option because I live in Canada and he is US based. He could even give you the names of some other shops out there with the Quarterhorse that might be closer to you that can do the tuning for you and possibly even install an entire EFI system if that’s your preference. Hope this helps. If you want a list of places I found all my goods, let me know and I can put it together for you.
 
Great looking build. I'm really interested in how the SEFI works out. IMO, that is the way to go if you're going to go the EFI route. You should be able to get more torque across the RPM range with SEFI than with a carb....not to mention the drivability and MPG gains.
 
Great looking build. I'm really interested in how the SEFI works out. IMO, that is the way to go if you're going to go the EFI route. You should be able to get more torque across the RPM range with SEFI than with a carb....not to mention the drivability and MPG gains.
I agree. There are several advantages and the argument that you don't gain any horse power or torque is only proven if you Dyno before and after. For me the main reason I wanted to convert it was so that it was reliable and I could monitor any changes I made from inside the car. It is a major bonus to be able to tune your vehicle live, on the road.
 
Back
Top